Wikipedia

[Mythology]

I recently got slightly involved with a friend who, if family lore (which she is sensibly suspicious of) turns out to be true for a change, has the same ancestors a few generations back on one side as Mandy Rice-Davies of "Well, he would, wouldn't he?" fame.

Other than her five minutes of fame in 1963, the only thing I knew about Mandy was that my younger sister, impressed by how well the young lady had done at the number one profession on sis's "When I leave school I want to be ..." list, named her only daughter Mandy in honour of her.
So, first stop - Google.
Obvious link from there - Wikipedia article.

"Mandy Rice-Davies, born October 1, 1944, is famous mainly for her minor role in the Profumo affair which discredited the Conservative government of British Prime Minister Harold Macmillan in 1963.
Born Marilyn Rice-Davies in Pontyates near Llanelli, Wales ..."

"She traded on the notoriety the trial brought her, married an Israeli businessman, Rafi Shauli ..."

"Co-wrote her autobiography, "Mandy", with Shirley Flack in 1980 ..."

(continues)

[Mythology]

Oh good. Straight away we have a birth date to track her down by.
And we know that her real name is Marilyn not Mandy.
(Sis, you goofed - your "Mandy" as we all know her, is really Amanda, isn't she? As a family historian who has been at it for longer than I have, you should have known better than to make assumptions, you silly girl.)
And, if there's any duplication of suitable birth entries in the GRO index, there's a marriage which (assuming it's here and not in Israel) will be easy enough to find, plus an autobiography - shouldn't be hard to find her parents names if we end up with two possible birth certs, see if they link back to the side of the family that my friend already knows of.

At the tail end of the Wikipedia article we find a rather dismissive note:
"In her (presumably ghostwritten) 16,000-word autobiography 'The Mandy Report' (published 1 January 1964) Rice-Davies states she was born in Mere, Wiltshire."
Oh - right, the writer thinks it's "presumably ghostwritten" because it's (presumably) wrong, some hastily knocked out "get the cash in while the story's still hot" rubbish scribbled by a journohack by the sound of it, we can forget that, can't we?

(continues)

[Mythology]

Now let's follow things up a bit ...

1) The hyphenation of "Rice-Davies" appears to be either a later affectation or a media invention due to her giving her full name and the press *assuming* it was hyphenated. In the GRO index, on both the birth entry and on her marriage entry she is "Davies, Marilyn R." The marriage entry is listed twice, but not because of a double-barrelled name as an alternative, she's simply acknowledged her commonly used forename, so also appears as "Davies, Mandy R." As the marriage was in 1966, well after the use of the "Rice-Davies" name in the trial reports, and she is still using plain Davies, I'm pointing the finger at the media rather than at her for the moment - *she* evidently knows what her name is (which rules out any connection with my family, I suppose ;)) and isn't pretending otherwise.

2) In the December quarter 1944 births, having, of course, drawn a complete blank with "Rice-Davies" what do we find for "Davies, Marilyn R."?
Three entries.
Only one Welsh one - and it's Merthyr Tydfil registration district, which certainly doesn't include Pontyates, which is miles away on the other side of Llanelli, on the way to Carmarthen!
One Bristol one.
And ...
Mere 5a 378
Mother's maiden name is Lewis, so this looks like a Welsh couple temporarily on the wander - she probably *grew up* in Pontyates, but the "presumably ghostwritten" 1964 scribble seems to have got it right, doesn't it?

(continues)

[Mythology]

3) From the GRO index marriage entry, hubby isn't "Rafi Shauli" - this appears to be some colloquial version, he's really Rafael Shaul. "Time" magazine (23 September 1966) also gives this as his name, and tells us ...

4) He was an Israeli airline steward. OK, if I was writing the article, I'd want to see the marriage cert to check but, on performance so far, especially as "Time" magazine is contemporary, my money is on their version, so she didn't *marry* a businessman - the business came later, didn't it?

On the basis of the above, I have suggested to my friend that she forgets about asking her library for "Mandy", co-written with Shirley Flack, and tries alternatives. "From Mere to Eternity" strikes me as a good probable title, and I expect to find that "Shirley Flack" is somebody of a completely different name who used to man an anti-aircraft gun not far from Solihull. ;)

(continues)

[Mythology]

I don't read Wikipedia articles much, but most of the others that I have read don't seem much better.
The *theory* of having an "open" encyclopedia which anyone can contribute to or edit sounds very nice, but it does not strike me as a good recipe for accuracy. It's on the internet though, so "it must be true" - I keep seeing Wikipedia quoted on forums and other web sites as if it's the Gospel.
As a local councillor here was once told off for saying:
"The trouble with democracy is that you have to allow the idiots to have their say too."

(Wanders off to write article on the Complete History of Britain, which will be added to Wikipedia within the next ten seconds ;))

[Burrow Digger]

This is ironic. I've been reading quite a few posts on a favourite American blog about how Wikipedia is "censoring" quite a few articles being written lately. Anything that does NOT agree with the official US policies, or the official US version of history gets deleted quite quickly by the editors - often in a matter of hours. :(

BD

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Oh good. Straight away we have a birth date to track her down by.
And we know that her real name is Marilyn not Mandy.
(Sis, you goofed - your "Mandy" as we all know her, is really Amanda, isn't she? As a family historian who has been at it for longer than I have, you should have known better than to make assumptions, you silly girl.)


For the curious amongst us (which definitely includes LindaCanada :D ) ...... have you told 'lickle sis' about her mistake?

Brilliant detective work in finding out the truth Myth, I wonder if the facts are also incorrect for her friend, Christine Keeler? ;)

[Mythology]

"have you told 'lickle sis' about her mistake?"
Not yet, but I will when I speak to her.

"Brilliant detective work"
Hardly - if I or anybody else on this forum couldn't use a bit of common regarding fairly obvious likely name variations and sort that out in about ten minutes, we'd be in real trouble. If it was actually *difficult*, then it would be easier to forgive the Wikipedia writer, but it isn't - that's what makes me grumpy about the thing.

"I wonder if the facts are also incorrect for her friend, Christine Keeler?"
I don't know and I'm not going to look. It's a nice sunny day, I was up bright and early, feeling reasonably fit, I'm going to pop over to Cricklewood to see a friend later and I want to keep a smile on my face, not give myself a headache before I go and turn up grumpy. ;)

[PamG]

I work in Reference Services at a local community college library. We try to teach students how to evaluate internet sources, and one of the websites we try to steer them away from is Wikipedia.

I have used it myself on occasion, when it's come up as a hit on a Google search, but it's our policy not to accept the information at this website, unless backed up by a second source.

Pam,
London, Canada

[Linda]

For the curious amongst us (which definitely includes LindaCanada :D )
Oh! That's me :o (and there are at least 100 other curious members, including AnnB |biggrin| )

Myth, hope you had a good time in Cricklewood and that you managed to keep smiling :D

Linda

[AnnB]

Oh! That's me :o (and there are at least 100 other curious members, including AnnB |biggrin| )

Linda
Nah, you've got it wrong Linda, I'm just downright nosey :cool:

Best wishes
Ann