Begging for help with a will - again!

[Linda]

Hello, 'tis me again, begging for help with a will.

I cannot make out all of the names on the last line - I see "Raphe Eve" then a squiggle (&?) then "Thomas" whatsit :confused: ;) , then............:confused: ..."Mister"?

http://photobucket.com/albums/a60/LindaCanada/?action=view&current=ScreenShot013.jpg

|help|
Thanks
Linda

[kazrbutler]

Dear Linda,

I have looked, but the size of the text makes it difficult for me to work things out. I find the following site helpful for transcribing wills. http://www.english.cam.ac.uk/ceres/ehoc/

If you click on "alphabets" - you can look at different forms of individual letters and common abbreviations.

Hope this is a help,
Karen

[Geoffers]

"Raphe Eve" then a squiggle (&?) then "Thomas" whatsit , then............ ..."Mister"?

I think it (in part) is

Raphe EVE & Thomas CHA(C??)(*Y/E??)(T???) the (#Mi(ini)sta herof)

*Hard to see if the line is a descender or bleed though from the other side of the page, I can't enlarge it without the image becoming pixelated. can you close in on this bit and save it at as high a resolution as you can? Do any similar shaped letters appear elsewhere in the will?

# "Minister hereof"

Geoffers

[Linda]

Thanks Karen and Geoffers.


I don't know that this helps any further
http://photobucket.com/albums/a60/LindaCanada/?action=view&current=ScreenShot001.jpg

but I'm sure you are correct with the "h" in several places Geoffers, as you can see though, those "h"s are a lot more scrawly than the one in "Raphe". I think the clerk must have had writer's cramp by the time he reached this point - it is the end of the fourth page and line 188. I don't think there is a "Y" in the last name for Thomas though - looks more like "s"

Linda

[Linda]

Hello again.

Having another look I think it could be "Thomas Cheese"

Any other suggestions out there?

Thanks
Linda

[Geoffers]

Having another look I think it could be "Thomas Cheese"

The thrid letter is definitely 'a' - looking at the enlarged view you posted, the penultimate letter does have a descending stroke and I'd agree that could be 's'

The hardest part for me is seeing what comes before and after the 's'

What date is the will? Are there any other sources which may give a clue as to what the name is intended to be? (e.g. Tax returns, parish registers)

Geoffers

[kazrbutler]

Could it be a form of Chase with either an r or e before the s? I am sorry, but find the enlargement difficult to make out.


Like Geoffers, I have found other documents, names from parish registers locally etc can give a clue to the name (if not the exact spelling) - though sometimes when you know what a word is supposed to be, it is easier to work out the spelling.

Karen

[Geoffers]

Could it be a form of Chase with either an r or e before the s?I don't think the fourth letter is an 'r', it's atypical of other forms on the excerpt. The form of the last two letters seems familiar - as though I've seen something similar elsewhere - but I can't remember when or where.

I've changed opinion as to the last three words, I think they appear to read "the writa herof" (the writer hereof).

'tis often the way, you work through a document in Secretary Hand and plough on happily, then every now and then the script becomes confusing, either because it has not copied well, or the scribe seems to be getting tired and his writing becomes sloppy, or someone just uses a strange form of a letter. Annoying but for me, far more interesting than reading something from the 20th century.

Geoffers

[kazrbutler]

I don't think the fourth letter is an 'r', it's atypical of other forms on the excerpt. The form of the last two letters seems familiar - as though I've seen something similar elsewhere - but I can't remember when or where.

Geoffers
|bowdown| I will bow to your superior knowledge Geoffers, as the fourth letter on my screen is a bit of a blurr!

Karen :)

[Linda]

Thanks for your further input. The reason I thought the third letter could be an 'e' is because of the curl at the top. I know it's difficult for you as you cannot see the whole document, but the writer does not appear to have made a curl at the top of 'a' in any other place, but there is a curl at the top of 'e', although usually extended a bit more.

The will was written in Essex (Great Totham) in 1609.

Following on your suggestions to look in other records is not easy from Canada, however I've just done a search on the SEAX web site (Essex Record Office) and found a will for Thomas CHESE of Maldon (a hop, skip and jump from Great Totham) dated 1625. His occupation.........scrivener! :D

|bowdown|
Linda

[Geoffers]

Following on your suggestions to look in other records is not easy from Canada, however I've just done a search on the SEAX web site (Essex Record Office) and found a will for Thomas CHESE of Maldon (a hop, skip and jump from Great Totham) dated 1625. His occupation.........scrivener!The reason I asked for the date was to possibly suggest some sources which you might try to find out the identity of the 'writa'; but you've managed to locate one.

It's always nice to find a County Record Office web-site with a good index to records. I think you may have found your answer in the above information. Presumably the chap who wrote the court copy which you have, found difficulty in reading Thomas (Chese?)'s surname and made his best effort.

Geoffers

[Linda]

Presumably the chap who wrote the court copy which you have found difficulty in reading Thomas (Chese?)'s surname and made his best effort.



I agree Geoffers, and we have to do the same don't we.:)

Thanks for figuring out the end bit "writa herof" - I don't know if I would've ever figured that one out.|blush|

Thanks again for your help
Linda