View Full Version : Disappearing Dagnells
19-02-2006, 10:17 AM
I wonder if anyone has any suggestions how to resolve a problem I have.
My gg-father (Alfred jnr) was born in Portsea in Sept 1869 to Alfred snr and Constance Dagnell (nee Drew). Alfred snr is shown on Alfred jnr birth certificate as a Master Butcher and the birth was registered by Constance, who's address and jnr birth-place are both given as 51 Charlotte Street. Alfred snr & Constance were married in Portsea in Q4 1868 (marriage index gives Dugnell, not Dagnell).
However, I can't find either Alfred snr or jnr in the 1871 census. Constance Drew (of the right age but single) is shown living with her mother and siblings at 13 Charlotte Street, but there's no sign of her husband or son. In Q3 1871, a Constance Dagnell is born in Portsea, I suspect a sister to Alfred jnr, however the baby dies within a year.
In the 1881 census, there is an Alfred & Constance Dagnell living in Mile End, of the right ages and both born in Portsea, however there is still no sign of Alfred jnr, aged 12. Alfred jnr finally crops up in 1891 census, aged 22 born in Portsea, living in West Ham & newly married (to a girl from Southampton). But where's he been for the last 22 years?
Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
04-03-2006, 11:02 AM
I agree that the family are not to be found in the Ancestry index for the 1871.
However you appear to be working from past to present rather than present to past.
You need to confirm who your family is by finding them in the 1901, giving us names, ages & birthplaces to go on, as so often these will have variation in each census. Then you can work back to the 1891 and so on.
Portsea is not an easy place to search for missing people, but you need to show that that was where they came from, and this missing family are indeed the ones that are yours.
04-03-2006, 1:07 PM
Thanks for your response Steve,
The 1901 details are Alfred & Ellen Dagnell, aged 33 & 32 respectively, living at 4, The Warren, Manor Park, East Ham. His occupation is given as Pork Butcher. Their children are the great-aunts & uncles I remember from my childhood, and the address matches oral history from the family. The census page is RG13_Pc-1600_Fo-46_Pg-1. So this much I am as certain as I can be.
Ellen's brother Edward Flarty was a survivor of the sinking of the Titanic. My mother met him when she was very young and he was very old, and remembers him as a miserable old so-and-so! My research has confirmed that Edward Flarty was a surviving fireman crew-member, which was all very interesting.
The 1891 census has Alfred & Ellen newly married, living in Plaistow, a few miles from Manor Park. Both the 1891 & 1901 census agree that he was born in Portsea and she in Southampton. However, I am having trouble tracing his side further back, hence the problem posted above.
Any suggestions you may have would be welcome.
04-03-2006, 5:28 PM
Some steps forward but mostly backwards. I cannot find your Alfred c1845 or his son Alfred Thomas D, c1869 in the 1871 or 1881 censuses.
I can only assume a surname mis-indexed, though I've searched on various first name variants such as Alf* and a year & county of birth. If you have the time try Alf* and just a county, or just a year, but you'll have to look through 1000's of names looking for one that looks wrong.
However, I suggest you look up Alfred's & Ellen's marriage and buy the marriage certificate. If he is as the 1891 & 1901 then he is the son of Wiliam & Sarah DAGNELL.
Alfred's birth appears in the September quarter of 1845 in Portsea. (another certificate)
1851 see piece 1659 folio 308b, William & Sarah with six children including Arthur plus William's mother.
1861 and William has died, see piece 636, folio 43b, now Sarah and five children including Arthur who is now a Butcher, which fits, plus a boarder.
1871 finds widow Sarah with two daughters and a boarder on piece 1138 folio 111b, another son Walter has married is on piece 1127 folio 8b, and another son William married & widowed on piece 1143 folio 4b.
I suggest you follow up as many of Alfred's siblings as you can on the 1881. It is always possible that he may be with a relative under their name.
It looks like Alfred senior died in the June quarter of 1890 in Mile End aged 47.
04-03-2006, 11:03 PM
Again, many thanks for your input.
The marriage certificates are on order (should have arrived today, but the FRO must be snowed under). I've been looking at all the Dagnell/Dugnell/Dignell/Dagnall families in the Portsmouth area and seeing how they are inter-related. I've honed in on the family you suggest as a strong possible. However, I hadn't thought of seeing if either Alfred is lodging with a married aunt or something. That's an excellent suggestion.
Depending on any additional information revealed by the certificates, I may be sending off my subscription money to Hampshire FHS.
Thanks again for your suggestions,
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