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KatieB
15-11-2005, 12:19 PM
My fathers Great-Grand Mother was Martha Jane Davies daughter of George Davies a coal miner she was born 1854-1857 (her age varied on documents) in Saundersfoot(sp) Pembrokeshire.
She married James Elliott 18th August 1884 giving her age as 30 in the English Wesleyan Chaple in Merthyr Tydfil.
They had a son Herbert George Elliott b 14th June 1885 at 26 Glendower Street, Dowlis.
James Elliott died 1886 and Martha remarried William Thomas Reid 26th December 1890 in Siloam Baptist Chaple, Llanelly, Breconshire. Her father was still alive at the time and Martha gives her age as 33! She had 4 more children the youngest born in 1902.

The marriges were witnessed by Mary Davies (1st) and Ann Davies(2nd) who maybe related.

I can't find George any census and can only find Martha in Brynmawr 1891 and Aston nr Birmingham 1901.
Does any one know anything more about the family or where I could start looking?

Wirral
15-11-2005, 1:01 PM
In the 1881 census, there is a George Davies, coalminer age 43, born Saundersfoot + lots of family at 10 railway St, St Issells, Pembrokeshire RG11/5407 page 7 folio 89. He could just about be Martha Jane's father if she was born 1857. No sign of her although there is a possibly Jane working as a servant elsewhere.

Mark
15-11-2005, 1:08 PM
How do you know her father was still alive on the occasion of the marriages?

Although sometimes you do see the word (deceased) in the father's name & occupation section of the certificate, it's not always there when the father is dead. The form didn't ask whether the father was dead or alive, just for his name and occupation.

I'm looking through the 1861 Wales on Ancestry, and can't immediately see any Martha's shown as dau's of George.

I'd suggest going through the birth indexes for 1852-1858 and seeing how many Martha Jane Davies there are registered in Pembroke, then applying for one or more certificates based on the father's name of George using the references you've found.

There are at least a couple of George Davies death index entries in Pembroke too on FreeBMD pre-1861, but in that era the age at death isn't in the index.

Mark

KatieB
15-11-2005, 1:23 PM
Mark on both marriage certificts her husbands father has decesed written by his name so I am assuming that if her father was dead it would also be stated.
There are 100's of Martha and Martha Jane Davies registered in Pembrokeshire between those years! I was hoping someone may have come across the family at some time and help to narrow it down a bit!

Wirral I have followed that family through the census of 1861 and 1871 and I am pretty sure it is not them as no Martha appears with them.

Thank you both anyway.

Mark
15-11-2005, 1:37 PM
Mark on both marriage certificts her husbands father has decesed written by his name so I am assuming that if her father was dead it would also be stated.
Probably a good assumption then.


There are 100's of Martha and Martha Jane Davies registered in Pembrokeshire between those years! I was hoping someone may have come across the family at some time and help to narrow it down a bit!
There are 42 George Davies of all ages in Pembrokeshire according to Ancestry's index in 1851 ... and 34 Martha (or Martha J*) Davies in the 1861 Ancestry index for 1861 born between 1853-1857 living in Pembrokeshire.


Wirral I have followed that family through the census of 1861 and 1871 and I am pretty sure it is not them as no Martha appears with them.

Thank you both anyway.
Mark

Wirral
15-11-2005, 1:39 PM
Have you tried the George Davies, iron miner, living in Amroth in the 1861 census RG9/4148 p5 f21? He has a daughter Martha age 5. Amroth is next to Saundersfoot.

Mark
15-11-2005, 1:47 PM
Have you tried the George Davies, iron miner, living in Amroth in the 1861 census RG9/4148 p5 f21? He has a daughter Martha age 5. Amroth is next to Saundersfoot.
And in 1851, George & Jane DAVIES are the son-in-law and daughter of Robert & Anne PHILLIPPS at Amroth on
HO 107 / 2475 / ED 7a folio 345 page 2 schedule 14

Mark

Mark
15-11-2005, 1:51 PM
The this 1881 Census from the LDS index might be relevant

George DAVIES Head M Male 57 Pembroke, Wales Coal Miner
Jane DAVIES Wife M Female 55 Pembroke, Wales Coal Miners Wife
Sarah DAVIES Daur U Female 21 Pembroke, Wales Home Assistant
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 96 King Street
Census Place Llangattock, Brecon, Wales
Family History Library Film 1342314
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 5464 / 65
Page Number 10

Wirral
15-11-2005, 2:27 PM
Following on from Mark's 1851 details, here are the full 1861 details.
RG9/4148 p5 f21 schedule 16, Carnor, Amroth, Pembrokeshire
George Davies, head M Iron miner, Pembrokeshire Amroth
Jane Davies wife M 35 Amroth
Elizabeth Davies dau 9 scholar Amroth
Ann Davies dau 8 scholar Amroth
Martha Davies dau 5 scholar Amroth
Sarah Davies dau 3 Amroth
Ann Phillips lodger wid 77 pauper Amroth

Wirral
15-11-2005, 2:40 PM
1871 census RG10/5586 p25 f16 Kings Street & Cemetery Road, Llangattock, Breconshire
Jane Davies head M 45 charwoman Pembrokeshire Amroth
Ann Davies dau U 18 laundress Amroth
Mary Davies dau U 15 housemaid Amroth
Martha Davies dau 13 Amroth
Sarah Davies dau 11 Amroth

Jane is married, not widowed, so George must be away for the night.

Mark
15-11-2005, 2:42 PM
and perhaps Martha in the 1881

Griffith PHILLIPS Head M Male 68 St Peters, Carmarthen, Wales Justice Of The Peace
Charlotte PHILLIPS Wife M Female 41 Canoncoom, Dorset, England
Gordon PHILLIPS Son U Male 1 Whitchurch, Glamorgan, Wales
Alice DAVIES Servant U Female 25 Amroath, Pembroke, Wales Servant Domestic
Martha DAVIES Servant U Female 24 Amroath, Pembroke, Wales Servant Domestic
Agnes MORRIS Servant U Female 23 Westbury On Severn, Gloucester, England Servant Domestic
Alfreda TUCKER Sister In Law U Female 44 Wootton Fitzpaine, Dorset, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling The Cottage
Census Place Whitchurch, Glamorgan, Wales
Family History Library Film 1342268
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 5275 / 135
Page Number 19

KatieB
15-11-2005, 3:46 PM
Thank you very much.
I think we'er onto a winer here, Marthas 2&3 sons both had Phillipps as a middle name I think I know where I was going wrong there was another family with a widowed Jane Davies and daughters Martha Sarah, Ann and Catherine of similar ages in Amroth, and I was disgarding "my" Martha as that Martha.

Thank you all again for the info

Wirral
15-11-2005, 5:57 PM
1891 census RG12/4433 p3 f60, 1 Dynevos Cottages, Lower Methry Tydfil, Glamorgan
Elizabeth Price head wid 39 Pembroke Amroth
William George Price son S 15 french polisher, Mon. Llanhilleth(?)
James Ivor Price son S 9 scholar Brynmawr Brecon
Elizabeth Jane Price dau S 5 scholar, Glam. Methyr
George Davies father M 67 coal miner Pembroke Amroth
Jane Davies mother M 65 Pembroke Amroth
John Frayne boarder S 25 outfitters assistant, Devon North Molton

Wirral
15-11-2005, 7:52 PM
On freeBMD, marriage at Narberth June Q 1849 vol 26 page 989, George Williams. Also on same page is Jane Philipps.
No sign of birth of Martha Jane Davies at right time at Narberth or Pembroke registration districts. However, there are no Martha Davies births listed for 1853 - 1858 inclusive on freeBMD (& up to 5 in each quarter either side of those dates) so you would be better looking at the full GRO index to find her birth. The IGI lists the christenings of a couple of her siblings at Amroth.

Wirral
15-11-2005, 9:02 PM
Also on IGI, 3 children christened at Amroth to Robert Philipps & Anne:
James c. 8 Nov 1824
Jane c. 29 Jan 1826
William c. 18 Apr 1828

In the 1851 census, Robert Phillipps is described as a farmer of 30 acres, born Amroth. As a farmer, there may be other records held locally that mention him.

KatieB
16-11-2005, 2:52 PM
I also found Elizabeth in 1901 remarried to James Bullock and still in the Merthyr area.

Thank you all again for your help.

Chris LW
06-01-2010, 9:34 PM
I realise this is some tome since you posted the message But.. My Great Grandmother was Elizabeth Jane Davies, ( older sister of Martha) daughter of George Davies and Jane Philipps of Amroth. I cannot go any further back than their parents-Robert Philipps b.1783/4 and Thomas Davies b. 1801. I have George and Jane's Marriage certificate (copy) and the relevant census sheets. Please contact me if you want or have any further information.

KatieB
09-01-2010, 11:12 AM
Hi Chris,
I've only got as far as George and Janes parents as well so far, but have Martha and Elizabeths lines almost sorted going forwards. Have you had any luck tracing the other sisters?