View Full Version : Brickwall 1 of 2... can you help?

08-11-2009, 4:31 PM
Hi there

I have 2 brickwalls in my research, and I would dearly love someone to be able to help, but I fear it is not going to be possible. |sad1|

To the point of this brickwall, I have been able to trace my family back quite thoroughly, and have managed to purchase the certificates for many events. This is what I know, going backwards on the relevant line, with the person in bold who I'm following:

Vivienne JONES, b 1944, d 1995
Irene Florence Rose SELWYN, b 1918, d 1997 = Thomas John JONES
Alfred George Cresswell SELWYN, b 22 Sep 1894, 11 Park Street, Milford Within, Salisbury and Beatrice CLARK.
Alfred Cresswell SELWYN, b 2 Jan 1861 Hawley, Blackwater, Surrey/Hants and Lucy Eliza KING

It is this guy, Alfred Cresswell SELWYN's parents who are causing me the problem, well his father to be precise. His name changes over the years I can 'find' him and I don't know if it was intentional, accidental or what. It means, however, I can't find his birth or marriage. Here is the evidence:

The first time I can 'find' him for certain is in Jan 1861. He appears on his son's birth certificate as Alfred John SELWYN, Upholsterer. They lived in Hawley, Blackwater (Hants or Surrey, depending on the year!)

In 1862, on his daughter, Isabella Mary SELWYN's birth certificate, he appears as Alfred Selwyn, Upholsterer. Their address is 4 Haberdashers Place East, Hoxton Old Town, Middlesex.

On the 1871 census he appears as Henry SELWYN, born Middlesex, birth year approx 1830. Living at Lord Clyde Beer House, Aldershot.

In 1872 he appears on his 3rd son, George Cresswell SELWYN's birth certificate as Alfred Henry SELWYN, Retailer of beer, living in Ash Road, Aldershot. George died a few months later.

In July 1880 he dies of Bright's Disease at Sandpit Cottage, Alexandra Road, Aldershot, Hants, listed as an Upholsterer. He is named as Henry Cresswell SELWYN. Death was reported by his daughter, Isabella.

In 1892, his first son's marriage certificate shows the father's name as Henry Cresswell SELWYN (deceased), Upholsterer.

For clarification, his spouse was Emily RAWLINS, born approx 1834 Chichester Sussex to Cornelius and Elizabeth Rawlins (brick wall number 2, on separate thread lol).

It is a total mystery and I'm not getting anywhere. I don't have a record of his marriage to Emily Rawlins but I do know that in 1851 she was still at home in Southampton, and worked as an Upholsteress. He is listed as an upholsterer so I wonder if they perhaps met at work or something? I wonder where they worked? In 1851 she was in Southampton, we don't know where he was, but by 1861 they were living together in Aldershot as a married couple.

So, any ideas how I can track him? If he was born in 1829/1830ish then he has to have been somewhere in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses!

So, as Penelope Pitstop would say...."Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp!" (please)

Thanks in advance


08-11-2009, 5:26 PM
Marriages Mar 1853
CLEAVE Walter S Hampton 2c 45
HARDING William Southampton 2c 45
ORAM Rosena Southampton 2c 45
RAWLINS Emily S Hampton 2c 45

Looks like Emily married someone else


Deaths Sep 1855
Cleave Walter Joseph Southampton 2c [1_]


Deaths Dec 1853
Harding William Southampton 2c 19
Deaths Jun 1856
Harding William Southampton 2c 7
Deaths Sep 1856
HARDING William David Southampton 2c 17

Perhaps after this she never bothered with marriage

08-11-2009, 5:41 PM
On the children's birth certificates, the mother's name and maiden name is listed as

Emily Selwyn, formerly Rawlins.

I know there is no guarantee that she didn't lie, but if she had been widowed I would have thought it would have said so? "would have thought" doesn't always bear fruit though lol..... have ordered the certificate for this entry:


Where did the 4 names for marriage you listed come from? I don't recognise the format, sorry!

Thanks for your help by the way, much appreciated!

08-11-2009, 5:52 PM
Please read the AUP. You are not allowed to link to a commercial site or to copy and paste direct from another site.

For clarification, his spouse was Emily RAWLINS, born approx 1834 Chichester Sussex to Cornelius and Elizabeth Rawlins (brick wall number 2, on separate thread lol).

See this thread (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53014)for more information regarding Emily

08-11-2009, 6:02 PM
My apologies.

The marriage certificate I have ordered is for 1853, Q1. Hampton. 2c pg 45


08-11-2009, 7:45 PM
The source of the marriage and death information is FreebMD

You would not immediately recognise it because I enter it manually to comply with the AUP

08-11-2009, 8:11 PM
Hi Raffaele,

Thanks for the info, I have now found freeBMD, yippee!

Having looked at it, the certificate I've ordered that hasn't arrived could well be delayed due to an error I made in the order. I put "Hampton" as the district, not realising it was S Hampton (as in sOUThampton) Doh! I checked it a few times but we decided the squiggle was part of the word above. I thought I checked the volume number on GenUKi but I couldn't have as now I have, and 2c is definitely Hampshire.

I will give GRO a call tomorrow and hopefully be able to sort it out.

So what did you type in to freeBMD to get all those names? What am I doing wrong?

Thanks in advance

08-11-2009, 8:41 PM
I searched for the marriage of Emily Rawlins between 1850 and 1860
Then when it appears click on the reference number
You then get all the people on the page, normally 4 and sometimes 8
As they are marriages in this instance one of two males could be the husband.

08-11-2009, 10:21 PM

There's an Alfred Creswel [sic], with wife Maria on the 1851 census in St Marylebone. Alfred was born circa 1828, and an upholsterer born Bradstone Suffolk.HO107/1490/143/3

08-11-2009, 11:09 PM
1841 census.

Isabella is a popular name with this family. Living in Essex, all born out of county.

T T Selwin [sic] 50
Isabella 32
Henry John 14
Isabella Mary 13
Gertrude L J 8

08-11-2009, 11:26 PM
My apologies.


You are forgiven ;) I apologise also for abrupt moderating but another one of your threads had also been moderated and I needed to draw your attention to the rules.

You see, Brit-Gen is free, totally. It does not cost us a bean for all the help we receive. It does, however, cost the administrators of the site. So why should they promote, advertise or link to any site that charges money for information. Makes sense really. :)

There is also a copyright problem, we cannot copy the information from those other sites and place it here. We can read it, and retype it in our own words but we cannot copy it. You will soon learn all these idiosyncrasies.

Once the members learn that you are a beginner, they will treat you more gently and explain better. Just tell them you are new to research and you will be surprised how much patience they have and how willing they will be to guide you through.

We all have to start somewhere and there is nowhere better than here.

Good Luck and welcome to the forum. |hug|

09-11-2009, 7:00 AM
Hi Rachel,

Do you have them in the 1861 census?

This is probably a complete red herring but there's a Henry CRESSWELL, 19, in the 1851 in Chelsea, b Marylebone, a Chair Maker, son of Hannah. This same chap is in the 1841; his presumed father William is a Chair Maker.

Good luck,


09-11-2009, 11:17 AM
Hi Lizzy,

Both of those look quite intriguing, I am going to do some more digging on those leads thank you so much!


09-11-2009, 11:25 AM

I saw that entry and I agree it looks quite possible.

Now I am stuck because of my inexperience (I've only been researching for about 3 weeks so am a beginner).

How do I go about following up the three suggestions from yourself and Lizzy9, which all look possible?

Thanks in advance


Looking on the IGI, the Henry Selwin from Broad Oak, Essex seems to have married a Sarah Copley in 1850, then an Eden Thackrah in 1867, then a Sophia Lawrell in 1900, eventually passing away in 1902. Looks like its not him :-(

09-11-2009, 8:22 PM
What does it say about the information on the IGI, is it extracted or submitted?
Have you read this forum sticky (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35183), it explains about the records you will find on there.

The other suggestions given on this thread are from census records.
Do you have access to census from a pay per view or subscription site with the ability to look at the original record not just an index?