PDA

View Full Version : Ahlstedt family - where from? Name spelled c



Colin Rowledge
28-10-2009, 3:14 AM
My grandfather's family [Golley] was looking good. 1 brother and 2 sisters all nicely fitted in with spouses, dates of marriage, children and dates of birth etc. And then Great Uncle Fred. had to throw a spanner in the works!!!

Here's the situation:
Frederichk Charles Golley married Elizabeth Ahlstedt in early 1928. Both Fred and Elizabeth were 30 years old and neither previously married - this is known but will be confirmed when marriage certificate arrives. There son Ernest [named after Fred.'s brother] late 1928.
No problem so far.

Elizabeth is the daughter of Karl Hugo and Annie Ahlstedt - nee Lugg. Hugo [as he was known] and Annie married in 1896. Elizabeth was born in 1897.
Now it get's a little murky. The 1901 census lists Bessie [as she is now known] living with her mother and staying with her brother and 2 unmarried sisters in Connor Downs, Gwithian. Annie has a f/t job as a Charwoman. No sign whatsoever of Karl Hugo. What happened to him? Annie Lugg is OK - she was born in St.Keverne in 1874 and I've sorted her side out OK!!

Karl Hugo was also born in St. Keverne in 1874. He was the son of Karl Oskar and Elizabeth Barrett. who had married in 1873. The 1881 census shows Elizabeth [now known as Bessie] - as a widow with 3 children [a son aged 7, a son aged 3 and another son aged 2]. The 2 younger boys were born in Swansea, Wales and the eldest in Phillack, Cornwall. Bessie is a Dressmaker.
I found Elizabeth on the 1871 census, but no sign of Karl Oskar

I decided to look for other children born between between 1869 and 1874.

I've checked 1871 census and found nothing. The 1881 census lists the following:
Charles son of Mary Ahlstedt - widow - living with parents in Mevagissey.
They're missing in 1891 but in 1901 Charles is married, living in Stoke in Teignhead, Devon and mother Mary - still a widow living with them.

No trace of the other 3 children anywhere after their birth:
Frederica Willhimina Ahlstedt - Jul q 1871
John Charles H. Ahlstedt - Jul q. 1873
Mary Elvina Ahlstedt - Apr. q 1874
I believe the 3 kiddies above are siblings but can't prove it

How do I go about resolving this one?

Hope to heck I haven't confused everyone.

Cheers
Colin
ps
"and off to bed"

christanel
28-10-2009, 4:49 AM
Is this any use?
1901 census RG13; Piece: 2201; Folio: 91; Page: 33.

Carl Hage Alstedt, prisoner in Bodmin, Cornwall 26, born Glamorgan Wales.

christanel
28-10-2009, 5:37 AM
Could this be Bessie/Elizabeth in 1891
RG12; Piece: 1852; Folio 51; Page 36;

Samuel H Osborne head Married 36 Tea dealer born Camborne
Bessie Osborne wife 36 born Hayle Cornwall

William Ahlstedt stepson 14 Blacksmith apprentice born Swansea Glamorganshire
Alexander Ahlstedt stepson Mason's apprentice born Swansea

Beatrice M Osborne age 1 born Cornwall Hayle

Apologies if I am way off beam - tilers are sawing away at tiles and some twit is revving his chainsaw. I need to |5cups|

Christina

Colin Rowledge
28-10-2009, 3:19 PM
Is this any use?
1901 census RG13; Piece: 2201; Folio: 91; Page: 33.

Carl Hage Alstedt, prisoner in Bodmin, Cornwall 26, born Glamorgan Wales.

Hi
If this is my guy, then all I can say is "what God-awful spelling" the enumerator was 'blessed with'. On the other hand it could be his accent?

Anyway, the age would be correct, But he states he was born in St. Keverne. Wonder what he was in prison for and how long the sentence was? Is it possible he would have been deported after finishing his sentence?

Swansea howver is in Glamofgan, Wales, so there may be a connection to your 2nd post which I'll address after brekkie.

Thanks
Colin

MarkJ
28-10-2009, 3:33 PM
Anyway, the age would be correct, But he states he was born in St. Keverne.

Always take the place of birth as being a guide, rather than a fact ;)

If someone is born in Glamorgan for example, but the family move to St Keverne when the child is young (and by that I mean pre-school or even a bit older, not just tiny babies) they probably will not remember their original home - certainly not clearly. Unless the child is specifically told exactly where they were born, they can only go on what they think is the correct place.

I can vouch for this myself - I had to fill in a form which asked for my place of birth. I put down what I believed to be correct, but, when I dug out my birth certificate some time later, I had given the wrong place! OK, the two places were not as far apart as Glamorganshire and Cornwall, but they were certainly a fair few miles apart!

Mark

Colin Rowledge
28-10-2009, 4:30 PM
Could this be Bessie/Elizabeth in 1891
RG12; Piece: 1852; Folio 51; Page 36;

Samuel H Osborne head Married 36 Tea dealer born Camborne
Bessie Osborne wife 36 born Hayle Cornwall

William Ahlstedt stepson 14 Blacksmith apprentice born Swansea Glamorganshire
Alexander Ahlstedt stepson Mason's apprentice born Swansea

Beatrice M Osborne age 1 born Cornwall Hayle

Apologies if I am way off beam - tilers are sawing away at tiles and some twit is revving his chainsaw. I need to |5cups|

Christina

Hi - yes it is them. Hugo would have been 17 at the time of 1891 census. William and Alexander were his brothers.

Do you have any idea as where Hugo was in 1891? Given his marriage in 1896 and being in prison in Bodmin in 1901, could he have been institutionalized in 1891, released after that census was completed, moved to St. Keverne where he met Bessie and got married?

I suppose I'd better try and get his marriage certificate to confirm kis place of birth and father's name and occupation..

Karl Oskar is still an unknown quantity.

Cheers
Colin

Raffaele
28-10-2009, 5:22 PM
Never knew Ahlstedt was so common

Births Mar 1869
Ahlstedt Charles Henry B St. Austell 5e 143
Births Sep 1871
AHLSTEDT Frederica Willhilmina St. Austell 5c 127
Births Dec 1873
Ahlstedt John Charles H Redruth 5c 260
Births Jun 1874
Ahlstedt Mary Elvins St Austell 5c 139
Births Mar 1879
Ahlstedt Alexander Lateman Swansea 11a 695
Births Dec 1879
Ahlstedt Emma Bolton 8c 342

Thought they might just help as it tracks the family

christanel
28-10-2009, 9:42 PM
Is this any use?
1901 census RG13; Piece: 2201; Folio: 91; Page: 33.

Carl Hage Alstedt, prisoner in Bodmin, Cornwall 26, born Glamorgan Wales.

My apologies Colin - I shouldn't post when there is chaos around me.
I missed the 'h' is Ahlstedt which is correct on the original. Also correct is Hugo but mistranscribed. Carl is with a 'c' not a 'k' on the original image.
There is an occupation for him, also but I can't make it out. Steam ?
To be deported he would have to have been born elsewhere - Sweden perhaps as I note there are a lot of Ahlstedt's born there. Transportation was no longer in operation.
Christina

Colin Rowledge
28-10-2009, 10:08 PM
My apologies Colin - I shouldn't post when there is chaos around me.
I missed the 'h' is Ahlstedt which is correct on the original. Also correct is Hugo but mistranscribed. Carl is with a 'c' not a 'k' on the original image.
There is an occupation for him, also but I can't make it out. Steam ?
To be deported he would have to have been born elsewhere - Sweden perhaps as I note there are a lot of Ahlstedt's born there. Transportation was no longer in operation.
Christina


No apology necessary, Christina - the main thing is you found him and that's the important part. Sometimes I think that the C in my name stands for CHAOS as it certainly is prevalent with me !!

Anyway he was definitely born in the UK [either Glamorgan or St. Keverne] and as you say deprtation wasn't appropriate and in 20th c. we weren't sending con's to OZ or Devil's Island.

Still somewhat of an unknown ancestry and but who knows - maybe someone will luck on to passenger ships lists from Sweden or wherever the family originated.

Haven't had any luck yet with finding a criminal record - see the thread there
and Mark's reply.

Will keep looking [and hoping]

Cheers
Colin

christanel
28-10-2009, 10:36 PM
Karl Hugo was also born in St. Keverne in 1874. He was the son of Karl Oskar and Elizabeth Barrett. who had married in 1873. ps

Should this be Elizabeth BRYANT?
Christina

Colin Rowledge
28-10-2009, 10:41 PM
Should this be Elizabeth BRYANT?
Christina

As I said, the C stands for CHAOS. Yes it is Bryant: :o

Colin

christanel
28-10-2009, 11:42 PM
Just as a matter of interest. Using the correct spelling of Ahlstedt.
On FMP and Ancestry.
The name does not appear until 1871 census. FMP 1 record, Ancestry none.

1881 Both FMP and Ancestry 12 records.

1891 FMP 3 records. Ancestry 12. So what they are down as on FMP I haven't yet looked. BUT no Osk(c)ar or Karl/Hugo.

1901 FMP 20 records Ancestry 20

1911 FMP 23 records, no Oscar or Hugo with variants.

I will take another more piercing (!) look at shipping records later.
Christina

blue eyes
29-10-2009, 12:10 AM
Hi Colin,

Found this chap in 1871 Carl Osskar he is a lodger with a family called Jorgenson from Norway.

Civil parish Holy Trinity
RD Hull
Sub RD Humber

Carl Osskar age 26 occ carpenter born Norway

Class RG10
Piece 4786
Folio 58
Page 1

I havnt checked the later censuses to see if he is a different Carl from yours.

blue eyes
29-10-2009, 2:59 AM
Death

1877

Mary Elvins Ahlstedt
Oct/Nov/Dec 1/4
District St. Austell

christanel
30-10-2009, 11:38 AM
Hi Colin
Do you have the marriage certificates for Karl Oskar and Karl Hugo?I am sort of grasping at straws here, any little thing that may give us a clue such as occupations and ages.
Plenty of Alstedts but none I can identify as your two. If one or both left their wives they may have changed their names or just anglicised them.
Christina

garstonite
01-11-2009, 10:19 AM
on geneanet.org there are 103 matches for AHLSTEDT ...
79 family tree matches
14 library matches
10 other sources
1713 is the earliest on a family tree
Sweden /Finland are the majority of births ,but there are also
Switzerland / Russia /France /Norway births as well.
Geneanet is a free site and easy to use...just join and about an hour later you will be able to contact or post as a full member....good luck...allan

Colin Rowledge
04-11-2009, 3:43 PM
Hi Colin
Do you have the marriage certificates for Karl Oskar and Karl Hugo?I am sort of grasping at straws here, any little thing that may give us a clue such as occupations and ages.
Plenty of Alstedts but none I can identify as your two. If one or both left their wives they may have changed their names or just anglicised them.
Christina

Hi Christina
Marriage Certificates for both Karl Hugo and Karl Oskar have been ordered.

There certainly appear to be a lot of 'em around and about at that time. Maybe this will help sort it out.

Cheers
Colin

Colin Rowledge
04-11-2009, 3:59 PM
Death

1877

Mary Elvins Ahlstedt
Oct/Nov/Dec 1/4
District St. Austell

Hi Blue Eyes.

The above refers to a 3 year old daughter of Adolf Bernhardt Ahlstedt and Mary Elvin Ahlstedt - nee Furse who married in St. Austell in 1868.

Not sure if this family is part of my Ahlstedt's though

Thanks for the post

Cheers
Colin

christanel
05-11-2009, 1:17 AM
Hi Christina
Marriage Certificates for both Karl Hugo and Karl Oskar have been ordered.

There certainly appear to be a lot of 'em around and about at that time. Maybe this will help sort it out.

Cheers
Colin

Hi Colin
It's only gentle chaos around me at the moment so look forward to hearing all the details on both certificates.
Christina

Colin Rowledge
24-11-2009, 1:10 AM
I am trying to figure this chap!! I have all kinds of ceririfcates and records but none seem to fit [or maybe, it's just me]. More eyes looking at this may be helpful.

I can find no trace of Karl Hugo in the 1911 census

As of 1901 cenus - Karl Hugo was in Bodmin jail in Cornwall, convicted of bigamously marrying an Eliza Ann Week in Pontypridd, Wales in 1898. He was sentenced to 12 months Hard Labour and released in May/June 1901.

On January 18, 1896 he married Annie Lugg aged 23 at the Register Office in Redruth. The witnesses were Alfred Kent and what looks like Omar Hill. On the 1901 census Annie is living with her brothe and 2 siaters [all unmarried] along with thier daughter, known as Bessie.
On the marriage certificate, Karl Hugo indicates that his father was Karl Hugo Ahlstedt - a mariner and deceased. In 1900 when incarcerated, Karl Hugo inicated that he was a seaman. Was he born in Sweden and after completing his sentence deported to Sweden?

Can anyone shed light on this?

Thanks

Colin

christanel
24-11-2009, 2:00 AM
Hello colin
FMP has a K H Ahlstedt leaving Liverpool on the ship Campania on 28 Nov 1903 Says he is single and an engineer. No age given. The single status means nothing, he could have told them anything.
Something to put in the 'maybe' pile?
Christina

Colin Rowledge
24-11-2009, 2:11 AM
Hello colin
FMP has a K H Ahlstedt leaving Liverpool on the ship Campania on 28 Nov 1903 Says he is single and an engineer. No age given. The single status means nothing, he could have told them anything.
Something to put in the 'maybe' pile?
Christina

Hi Christina
Just like everything else about his guy - it's all a 'maybe'

Did he ever exist or was his daughter one of thioe 'immacuate conceptions'?

Colin

P.S. Where was the ship heading - do you know?

christanel
24-11-2009, 5:09 AM
Sorry Colin, the ship was headed for New York.
I am still looking, in between pretending to be a housewife.
Christina

christanel
24-11-2009, 6:24 AM
On ancestry there are two births for Karl Hugo Ahlstedt, one in 1881 and the other 1888 - both in Sweden. The 1881 born Karl could possibly have been married in 1896and put his age up but not the 1888 born fella. However I am not happy with this but another piece for the "long shot folder."
Christina

JAP1
24-11-2009, 10:25 AM
I think that the occupation for prisoner Carl in the 1901 census is Seaman.

If you look down the page, there are quite a few people with occupation Seaman and they have the same mark through them as Carl's occupation.

JAP

JAP1
24-11-2009, 12:23 PM
Hi Colin,

I'm getting quite confused! What you wrote in your original post seems to be continually changing as the thread progresses, and new pieces of information (from time to time conflicting with the original post) seem suddenly to be appearing out of nowhere. It would perhaps be useful if you could clarify what you do and do not have, and could let us know the sources.

One major question seems to be whether or not K/Carl Hugo AHLSTEDT is, or is not, a son of Karl Oskar AHLSTEDT who married, reg Jun qtr 1873, Redruth; Elizabeth BRYANT on the same page.

It seem very likely that he is - given that (see earlier) the widowed Elizabeth (as Bessie) AHLSTEDT is in the 1881 census in Phillack with sons Hugo 7 b Phillack, and William 3 and A--- 2 (presumably should be Alexander) both born in Glamorganshire.

So if prisoner Carl is that Hugo, then he would probably hardly have known his father and that would explain why he would get his father's given names wrong.
And he might well have remembered living in Glamorganshire before his father died and Bessie returned to Phillack with the boys; that would explain the birthplace he gave in the 1901.

We have the reference for that 1873 marriage.
Do you have a reference for a birth of Carl Hugo/Karl Hugo/Hugo ca 1875?
Do you have a reference for a birth of William ca 1878?
Alexander presumably the Alexander Lateman AHLSTEDT, birth, Mar qtr 1879, Swansea.

Then we have a reference for the marriage of Karl Hugo AHLSTEDT, Annie LUGG on the same page, Mar qtr 1896, Redruth.
And a reference for the birth of Elizabeth Mary AHLSTEDT, Dec qtr 1896, Redruth.

I don't see a reference for the alleged 1898 bigamous marriage ...

While it would be interesting to know what eventually happened to 'Hugo', I guess the most important thing for tracing the ancestry of Frederick GOLLEY's wife Elizabeth AHLSTEDT is to see if her father (Karl Hugo AHLSTEDT, the husband of Annie LUGG) can be linked without any doubt to Karl Oskar AHLSTEDT & Elizabeth BRYANT.

If only the birth cert of 'Hugo', presumed son of Karl Oskar & Elizabeth (Bessie), could be located. Or a baptism. Perhaps you have these?

JAP

Colin Rowledge
24-11-2009, 8:52 PM
Based upon the last post, I believe that clarification of my purpose or, at least an explanation of my original post to this thread [#1]is required.l

Many folks, as do I, have family 'records' that are passed down by generations. When those people are no longer with us, we try to establish 'fact from fiction'. My post #1 was based upon those family records.

With the help of forum members, much of the family records have turned out to be 'hogwash', however many of the perpetrators of such 'hogwash' have, now documents are arriving, couldn't tell the truth, even if their life depended upon it.

This discourse may seem harsh, but that was why I posted it on the Brickwall site.

Until such time as I have a complete history of Karl Hugo [much of which is to me untraceable], I'll cease and desist from further postings on this thread.

Cheers
Colin

Nicolina
24-11-2009, 10:19 PM
the chances are that he just went back to sea. A typical sailor - a girl in every port. Only joking, I never had a girl in any port during my 20 years in the Merchant Navy.

Nicolina
24-11-2009, 10:34 PM
the K H AHLSTEDT that sailed on the "Campania" in 1903 was a 15 year old from Stockholm, Sweden. Ellis Island has him listed as Kunt H Ahlstedt.

Colin Rowledge
24-11-2009, 10:41 PM
the K H AHLSTEDT that sailed on the "Campania" in 1903 was a 15 year old from Stockholm, Sweden. Ellis Island has him listed as Kunt H Ahlstedt.

Thanks Nicolina, I can now discount this 'possible' as to where Karl Hugo met his end.

What an 'interesting' 1st name, eh?

christanel
25-11-2009, 12:12 AM
the K H AHLSTEDT that sailed on the "Campania" in 1903 was a 15 year old from Stockholm, Sweden. Ellis Island has him listed as Kunt H Ahlstedt.

Great, that is one out of the picture.

Christina

Nicolina
25-11-2009, 1:24 AM
I wondered whether anyone would pick up that first name. It also seems that he changed his occupation on the way to America. He's on the ship's manifest as a Goldsmith which I find hard to believe for a 15 year old.
Back to the bigamy theme. I wonder whether he changed his name and re-married again. Maybe he liked wedding cake :)

Reminds me of a Captain I sailed with. On the outside of his cabin door was a plaque "Marriages performed by the Captain are only valid for the duration of the voyage".

Colin Rowledge
25-11-2009, 2:14 AM
I wondered whether anyone would pick up that first name.

Reminds me of a Captain I sailed with. On the outside of his cabin door was a plaque "Marriages performed by the Captain are only valid for the duration of the voyage".

Regarding the 1st part ---- it must be hy mind is still in the gutter.

Funnily enough, from your 'handle' I wouldn't have have thought you were a 'Navy type'.
You'd have gooten along well with my Great-uncle Ernest. He served for 20 YEARS {give or take] in the Royal Navy [including the battle of Jutland]

JAP1
25-11-2009, 3:54 AM
It is very frustrating not to be able to find a birth reference for the 'Hugo' aged 7, birthplace listed as Phillack, who is with Bessie AHLSTEDT (widow of Karl Oskar AHLSTEDT) and her two Swansea-born younger sons in the 1881 Phillack, Cornwall census.

Can any B-G 'terriers' find it?

The 1868 marriage certificate of Karl Oskar AHLSTEDT & Elizabeth BRYANT would be of interest in tracing the line as it should give the name of Karl Oskar's father.
Also this would/should show whether Karl Oskar is perhaps, or is not, a brother of the other Cornwall AHLSTEDT family (Adolf Bernhardt AHLSTEDT whose father is recorded in the IGI at his marriage as Alexander Auguste).

The demolition of "Brickwalls" is so often assisted by certificates.

Meanwhile, for completeness, I'll list information on the St Austell (Mevagissey) AHLSTEDT family in case it helps anybody - now or in future.

1868
Marriage: Adolf Bernhardt AHLSTEDT, Sep qtr 1868; St Austell; Mary Elvins FURSE/FURZE on same page.
From IGI: Marriage, Adolf Bernhardt AHLSTEDT (father Alexander Auguste) and Mary Elvira FURZE (father Thomas), 20 Sep 1868, Mevagissey Cornwall

1869
Birth: Charles Henry B AHLSTEDT, Mar qtr 1869, St Austell

1871 census
RG10/ Piece 2268, Folio 10, Page 12
Upper Cliff St, Mevagissey, Cornwall
AHLSTEDTT (sic)
Mary, Wife, Mar, 29, Sailor's Wife, b Mevagissey
Charles Henry, Son, 2, b do

1871
Birth: Frederica Willhilmina AHLSTEDT, Sep qtr 1871, St Austell

1874
Birth: Mary Elvins AHLSTEDT, Jun qtr 1874, St Austell

1875
Death: Frederica W AHLSTEAT (sic), age 3, Mar qtr 1875, St Austell

1877
Death: Mary Elvins AHLSTEDT, age 3, Dec qtr 1877, St Austell

1881 census
RG11/ Piece 2304/ Folio 5/ Page 4
Cliff St, Mevagissey, Cornwall
FURSE
Mary, Head, Widow, 57
Thomas, Son, Unm, 25, Rope Maker
Susan, Daur, Unm, 27
James, Son, Unm, 21, General Labourer
Emily, Daur, 15, Scholar
AHLSTEDT
Mary, Daur, Mar, 38
Charles, Grandson, 11, Scholar
All born Mevagissey

1891 census
RG12/ Piece 1823/ Folio 18/ Page 30
East Hill, St Austell, Cornwall
Charles B AHLSTEDT, Boarder, Single, 22, Booksaleman, b Mevagissey

I have not yet found Mary AHLSTEDT in 1891.

1901 census
RG13/ Piece 2062/ Folio 5/ Page 1
Stokeinteignhead, Devon
AHLSTEDT
Charles H B, Head, 33, Boot Maker (own account at home), b Meragincy (sic) Cornwall
Sarah M, Wife, 27, b Bagtor Ilsington Devon
Frederica, Daur, 5, b Aldershot Hants
Mary A, Wid, 60, b Meragincy (sic) Cornwall
(Ancestry has transcribed the birthplaces of Charles and Mary as Mevagissey though that's not what it actually says.)

JAP
PS: I see that 'Bessie' is recorded as Mary Elizabeth J AHLSTEDT at her Dec qtr 1886 marriage to Samuel OSBORNE.

Nicolina
25-11-2009, 4:29 AM
just had a look at Cornwall OPC site and cannot find anything there. I even tried searching only on the first name and found, wait for it - HUGO URINE!!!!!!!!

Nicolina
25-11-2009, 4:51 AM
nearest I've found was HUGO HALSTEAD (sounds very similar) registered in Burnley in 1877 but he appears to have died in the next quarter.
There is also a marriage for Hugo Halstead or Holstead Dec tr 1898 Pontypridd 11a 942
and a marriage Jun 1913 Redruth 5c 345 to Eliza J. HARRIS Which Hugo?

Checked the Censuses and the only one I can find was in 1911
RG14PN13962 RG78PN831 RD299 SD1 ED5 SN33
Penstruthal Redruth Cornwall
HALSTEAD, Hugo abt. 1873 Tin Miner born Hayle, Cornwall
HALSTEAD, Annie abt. 1873 born Coverack, Cornwall
HALSTEAD, Elizabeth abt. 1897 born Hayle ,Cornwall
HALSTEAD, William Henry abt. 1902 born Hayle, Cornwall
LUGG, Minnie abt. 1875 Charwoman born Coverack, Cornwall (unmarried sister in law)

Hugo & Annie married 15 years

JAP1
25-11-2009, 5:55 AM
...
The 1868 marriage certificate of Karl Oskar AHLSTEDT & Elizabeth BRYANT would be of interest in tracing the line as it should give the name of Karl Oskar's father.
Also this would/should show whether Karl Oskar is perhaps, or is not, a brother of the other Cornwall AHLSTEDT family (Adolf Bernhardt AHLSTEDT whose father is recorded in the IGI at his marriage as Alexander Auguste).

The demolition of "Brickwalls" is so often assisted by certificates.
...

PS: I see that 'Bessie' is recorded as Mary Elizabeth J AHLSTEDT at her Dec qtr 1886 marriage to Samuel OSBORNE.

And this leads to the disposal of a very large red herring.

As Karl Oskar's 1868 marriage certificate would have done.

Karl Oskar AHLSTEDT did not marry Elizabeth BARRETT (post #1) nor Elizabeth BRYANT (post #11).

Elizabeth BRYANT is on the same 1868 marriage page as Karl Oskar AHLSTEDT. But that is not the person Karl Oskar married.

Karl Oskar married the other female on the page - Mary Elizabeth J COOK.

This is confirmed by the Cornwall OPC.

And here we have the entry from the Cornwall OPC:

4 Jun 1873
Groom
AHLSTEDT Karl Oskar
21
{C} B {i.e. Bachelor}
Mariner
{Residence} Hayle
{S/M - signed or mark} S
{Father} Augustine Alexander AHLSTEDT, Watchmaker
Bride
COOK Mary Elizabeth Jane
20
{C} S {i.e. Spinster}
{Residence} Hayle
{S/M - signed or mark} S
{Father} John COOK, Mariner
{B/L} B {i.e. Banns}
{Witnesses} William PAYNTER, Maria SYMONS

JAP

JAP1
25-11-2009, 6:01 AM
Nicolina,

I think you've cracked it!

The 1898 Pontypridd marriage is almost certainly the bigamous marriage.
There is no Eliza Ann WEEK (the name stated by Colin ROWLEDGE in post #20) - but there is an Eliza Ann MEEK!

The LUGG sister-in-law is another good pointer.

Congratulations on a great find,

JAP

JAP1
25-11-2009, 6:48 AM
Birth of William Henry (brother of the Elizabeth AHLSTEDT who married Frederick GOLLEY):

Birth: William Henry AHLSTEDT, Jun qtr 1902, Redruth, Vol 5c, Page 187

On the 1911 census (as per Nicolina's find) as William Henry HALSTEAD.

JAP

JAP1
25-11-2009, 9:50 AM
Nicolina, Just to tie up the loose end of the other marriage you mentioned (HALSTEAD/HARRIS) ...

Annie (LUGG) AHLSTEDT is presumably the following death:
Death: Annie HALSTEAD, age 39, Mar qtr 1912, Redruth, Vol 5c, Page 259

The following year, (Karl/Carl) Hugo AHLSTEDT then re-marries:
Marriage: Hugo HALSTEAD marries Eliza J HARRIS, Jun qtr 1913, Redruth, Vol 5c, Page 345

So, the history of 'Hugo' so far ...
Ca 1874 - we still don't have the birth record for 'Hugo'.
(Might he be John Charles H AHLSTEDT, birth, Dec qtr 1873, Redruth, Vol 5c, Page 260? I think that this record is the only Cornwall AHLSTEDT who doesn't fit into the family of Karl Oskar or into the family of Adolf Bernhardt.)
1881 - we have him in the 1881 census as Hugo AHLSTEDT, age 7, born Phillack, with his mother 'Bessie' and two younger Swansea-born brothers
1891 - we don't have him in the 1891 census (perhaps he is at sea?)
1896 - as Karl Hugo AHLSTEDT, he marries Annie LUGG, Redruth
1898 - as Hugo HALSTEAD he 'marries' Eliza Ann MEEK, Pontypridd
1901 - as Carl Hugo AHLSTEDT, Seaman, age 26, born Swansea Glamorgan, he is in gaol in Bodmin
1911 - as Hugo HALSTEAD he is in the 1911 census with wife Annie and two children, Elizabeth and William
1912 - his wife Annie dies, as Annie HALSTEAD, 1912, Redruth
1913 - as Hugo HALSTEAD, he marries Eliza J HARRIS, Redruth

JAP

Colin Rowledge
25-11-2009, 3:45 PM
And this leads to the disposal of a very large red herring.

As Karl Oskar's 1868 marriage certificate would have done.

Karl Oskar AHLSTEDT did not marry Elizabeth BARRETT (post #1) nor Elizabeth BRYANT (post #11).

Elizabeth BRYANT is on the same 1868 marriage page as Karl Oskar AHLSTEDT. But that is not the person Karl Oskar married.

Karl Oskar married the other female on the page - Mary Elizabeth J COOK.

This is confirmed by the Cornwall OPC.

And here we have the entry from the Cornwall OPC:

4 Jun 1873
Groom
AHLSTEDT Karl Oskar
21
{C} B {i.e. Bachelor}
Mariner
{Residence} Hayle
{S/M - signed or mark} S
{Father} Augustine Alexander AHLSTEDT, Watchmaker
Bride
COOK Mary Elizabeth Jane
20
{C} S {i.e. Spinster}
{Residence} Hayle
{S/M - signed or mark} S
{Father} John COOK, Mariner
{B/L} B {i.e. Banns}
{Witnesses} William PAYNTER, Maria SYMONS

JAP

I was very much in error with regard to the marriage of Karl Oskar. In my family records his spouse was named solely as Elizabeth and that the family referred to her as Bessie. This was why I concluded that it was Bryant.

Now that Karl Oskar's marriage certificate supports. I will hope that JAP1 will forgive me.

I'll now review the rest of the rest of the posts, but wanted to get my apology on line first.

Colin

Colin Rowledge
25-11-2009, 4:38 PM
I want to say thanks to JAP1 and Nicolna as well as the others who have assisted in breaking down my wall.

All marriage certicates that I was aware of are now in. Details are as follows:
Frederick Charles Golley married Elizabeth Mary Ahlstedt April 4, 1928. Elizabeth was aged 31 and gave her father as Karl Hugo Ahlstedt [Tin Miner below ground]

Karl Hugo Ahlstedt married Annie Lugg January 18, 1896. Karl Hugo gave his age 23 and Annie also was aged 23. Karl Hugo gave his father's name as Karl Hugo - Mariner deceased. This would appear to be incorrect as it should be Karl Oskar.

Karl Oskar Ahlstedt married Mary Elizabeth Jane Cook June 4, 1873. Karl Oskar gave his age as 21 and Mary Elizabeth aged 19. His occupation was listed as Mariner. He indicated his father was Augustine Alexander Ahlstedt [Watcmaker]

With the other information provided on posts #34-40 I have a very informative picture of the family and can now try to find the connections with the folks listed there.

Certainly Karl Hugo was a bit of a scoundrel wasn't he?

Cheers
Colin

Colin Rowledge
25-11-2009, 5:25 PM
I think that the birth listed in the last quarter of 1873 -
Redruth district Vol. 5c page 260 and listed as John Charles H. Ahlstedt could very well be Karl Oskar and Mary Elizabeth's 1st child.

The last child born was around 1879 and by 1881 Mary Elizabeth - now known as Bessie - was a widow. Karl Oskar must have died sometime between 1879 and the date of the 1881 census.

It may be that John Charles, changed his name to Karl in honour of his father. I think it will be a good idea to order that birth certificate.

If my assumption is correct on the name change, would it have been a formal action or would he just become 'known as'?

Thanks
Colin

Colin Rowledge
25-11-2009, 8:45 PM
Following on the earlier post, the 1881 census listed 2 brothers, William aged 3 and one shown as "A". Both were born in Wales as noted earlier.

I have not yet found the birth registration for William, however a possible marriage for him in 1898 as he shows up on the 1901 census in Gower, Glamorgan with a spouse and 2 little ones. Can another pair of eyes locate this info. please?
I was curious as to why the enumerator in 1881 just showd him as "A". Any ideas on this?

In 1891 he was with his brother William, mum Bessie and her husband Samuel Osborne along with their daughter. He was listed as Alexander

Further checking on A has led to a birth in Swansea in March Q. 1879 for an Alexander Lateman Ahlstedt. What an interesting middle name. Could it be that he was born around the time of his father [Karl Oskar's] death?

Cheers
Colin

JAP1
26-11-2009, 4:03 AM
Hello Colin,

It is great when, with everybody's combined efforts, things all come together (and wasn't that an inspired find by Nicolina - I was really excited when I read it!).

Absolutely no need for an apology.
However, it does point up how essential it is to give sources - or at the very least to distinguish between what is definitely known and what is just assumed (and why) or comes from family folklore.

I guess that everyone just took it for granted that you knew that 'Bessie' was Elizabeth Bryant and so nobody investigated further.
It was only because Nicolina mentioned the CornwallOPC that I had a look there for Karl Oskar's marriage in case I could find it and there were clues as to his origin. And when I found it and the name of the bride, of course I remembered noticing Bessie's forenames at her second marriage
Incidentally, Elizabeth BRYANT's marriage is there also on John Smith's website (accessible through the CornwallOPC). She was a 32yo widow, maiden name OLIVER.

If Bessie decided to call Hugo by that name, no further action would be needed. And Hugo himself might never even have known under what name he had been registered (John perhaps in honour of Bessie's Dad, Charles an English version of Karl/Carl, and Hugo if that's what the 'H' stands for in that reference).

No, I wasn't able to find William's birth registration - Alexander's yes but not William's (see post #26).

Re the enumerator writing 'A' for Alexander in 1881, perhaps he couldn't read the rest of the name on the schedule, meant to check it out, and simply forgot.

I suspect that Hugo & Annie had another child after William Henry but that she did not survive.
Birth: Annie Jane AHLSTEDT, Jun qtr 1903, Redruth, Vol 5c, Page 201
Death: Annie Jane HALSTEAD, age 1, Sep qtr 1904, Penzance, Vol 5c, Page 131
I guess that the 1911 census should indicate how many children they had, living & not living.

It seems a safe bet that Karl Oskar and Adolf Bernhardt were brothers. I wonder whether living descendants (if any) of Adolf's son Charles know anything about his background ... It would be great to find out the country of origin.

And I wonder whether Hugo 'HALSTEAD' and Eliza HARRIS (though perhaps she was an older lady) had children.

If Karl Oskar and Adolf were lost at sea, I wonder whether there would be anything in newspapers of the day? Remembering, of course, that Karl Oskar was possibly resident in Swansea, not Cornwall, at the time.

Best of luck,

JAP

Colin Rowledge
26-11-2009, 4:11 AM
All I can say is THANKS

YOUR RESPONSE HAS TAUGHT THIS 'ROOKIE A THING OR 2"

Cheers
Colin