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Elma
02-10-2009, 6:01 PM
Hi Everyone
My Frederick James Starr was born in Bristol around 1871. I know little about him except he was a gramaphone dealer and resided in Horfield Bristol around 1935. He married my grandmother's sister and they must have found love late in life as she was aged 63 and it was her first marriage!
My Aunt was named Sarah Katherine Rosina Clements born in Hampstead around 1871. Her birth registration or baptism has never been found!! She appears to proudly record her birth as Hampstead where her siblings record other London Parishes. Life was Difficult and we find her in the workhouse at both Fulham and Royston, Essex. It apppears Catherine Sarah Rosina Clements left the workhouse and entered service eventually joining her family, now in Bristol (late 1890's). Catherine continued to work 'in service' to the Misses Shepherd, they lived in Royal Park, Clifton. What happened to her and who was Frederick James Starr? I do not know. Who were these Misses Shephard of Clifton, they were ladies of independant means and helped my family through many a crisis. I wonder if I could find any wills for them as Catherine was in their service for many years and appears to have done quite well.
Do any of these names mean anything to anyone or does anyone know where I can continue looking?
Cheers Elma

Keyboard86
02-10-2009, 8:50 PM
Hi Elma welcome to the forum, just to get the show on the road and bump this to top of the list so that more can help you, this is what I have found possibly for Frederick James Starr.

Frederick James Starr marriage Bristol Mar 1898 ref vol 6a page 82
Frederick James Starr marriage Bristol Dec 1903 ref vol 6a page 25.

Mar 1898 marriage to either a Elizabeth Morgan or Julia Brookes
Dec 1903 marriage to either a Lelena Frances Larcombe or Theresa Elizabeth Baker.

Best regards
Keyboard86|wave|

Keyboard86
02-10-2009, 9:12 PM
Hi Elma welcome to the forum, just to get the show on the road and bump this to top of the list so that more can help you, this is what I have found possibly for Frederick James Starr.

Frederick James Starr marriage Bristol Mar 1898 ref vol 6a page 82
Frederick James Starr marriage Bristol Dec 1903 ref vol 6a page 25.

Mar 1898 marriage to either a Elizabeth Morgan or Julia Brookes
Dec 1903 marriage to either a Lelena Frances Larcombe or Theresa Elizabeth Baker.

Best regards
Keyboard86|wave|

Hi again if this is your Frederick he married the 1898 Julia, as he is shown with her on the 1901 Census living at 78 Melbourne St Bristol. He is shown as Grocery shop assistant

Best Regards
Keyboard86|wave|

Keyboard86
02-10-2009, 9:31 PM
Frederick in 1881

Frederick Starr Head aged 36 occ Printers labourer born Nunney
Mary A Wife aged 36 born Bristol
Frederick Son aged 9 Scholar born Bristol
Alice Daughaged 7 Scholar born Bristol
Stephen Son aged 5 Scholar born Bristol
Louisa Daughaged 3 born Bristol
Caroline Daughaged 1 born Bristol

living at 8 Host St Bristol Ref RG 11/2476/13/20 1901 ref is RG 13/2399/88/8

Best regards
Keyboard86|wave|

Keyboard86
02-10-2009, 10:30 PM
Hi Elma I have found her in 1901 with the Sheppard sisters!

Esther Q Sheppard Head aged 62 Living on own means born Exeter Devon
Mary J sister aged 59 as above born Exeter Devon
Emily F sister aged 53 as above born Exeter Devon
Edith sister aged 52 as above born Exeter Devon
Edith Wolaston widow aged 52 as above born ?
Amy Willis servant cook aged 35 born ?
Sarah Clements servant housemaid aged 29 born Hampshire

living at 11 Royal Park Clifton ref RG 13/2368/133/25

Best Regards
Keyboard86|wave|

Keyboard86
03-10-2009, 12:25 AM
Hi Elma Esther the eldest "Sister" was born into an apparentely rich family living in Heavitree/St Leonard/Devon, I have her on the 1841 Census:-

Joseph Sheppard Head aged 30 occ ? Merchant born not in county
Esther " Wife aged 30 " " " "
H J S " Son aged 8 born in county
Benjamin Nike " Son aged 5 born in county
Joseph Son aged 3 born in county
ESTHER Daugh aged 2 born in county
Sidney Son aged 10months born in county

Ref HO 107/263/23

I will search further on the "sisters" lives ok

Best Regards
Keyboard86|wave|

Keyboard86
03-10-2009, 12:53 AM
Hi Elma wish i could write all this down and send a long list, but I am fitting this in while I work!

Esthers father Joseph or Josh on 1861 is a seriously rich man, the 1861 show him as a "Fundholder" I will post details later, the key to this I believe is the relationship of the Sheppard family with the Wollaston family.

Got to sort out work problem, but will be back!

Keyboard86

Keyboard86
03-10-2009, 2:55 AM
Elma so as i can fit work in with helping you out(hopefully)! I will give salient points and leave Census ref only, so that if you or anyone else wish to view further details then you/they can is that ok.

1891 Census Frederick Starr (Star on Ancestry) still with parents at 8 Host Street, now he is a milkman!

Ref RG 12/1964/24/41

I realise this is not in any kind of order but hopefully you can make sense of it, if anyone is assisting Joseph Sheppard/Shepherd/Shepperd is on the 1891 Census aged 83 he dies Sept 1891 aged 84 Barton Regis v6a p35.
His wife Esther dies June 1860 in Clifton ref 6a 90.
ps at this time/census he and his family are of independent means.

1891 ref RG 12/1966/99/3 Ref 1861 census RG 9/1401/130/25

Best regards
Keyboard86|wave|

Keyboard86
03-10-2009, 3:40 AM
1871 Census ref RG 10/2071/75/35 shown as Sheperd on FMP living in Barnpark Terrace Teinmouth Devon

Keyboard86

Keyboard86
03-10-2009, 3:46 AM
1881 ref RG 11/2461/17/12 shown again as Sheperd on FMP living at 2 Mount Heber Hill Clevedon Somerset.

Joseph
Emily
Marianne Pim sister in law aged 70 born middlesex/surrey

Keyboard86

Keyboard86
03-10-2009, 4:04 AM
1851 census ref HO 107/1868/467/37 shown as Shepherd on Ancestry

looks like Joseph is a Wine? Merchant

Best Regards
Keyboard86

Keyboard86
03-10-2009, 4:56 AM
1901 census ref for Frederick Starr with wife Julia with him as Grocery shop assistant

RG 13/2399/88/8

Keyboard86

Keyboard86
03-10-2009, 5:14 AM
Marriage of Sarah K R Clements to Frederick Starr Bristol 6a 403 June 1935

On 1901 census Sarah is shown as born Hampshire on original it seems to show a ? and ldn(London) attached

Best regards
Keyboard86

Elma
03-10-2009, 10:23 AM
Hi Keyboard 86
You sure work hard, thanks. I will send off for Fredericks marriages. Perhaps he has some
relatives by one of these previous marriages who can shed some light on this.
One more piece of the puzzle!
Cheers Elma

Elma
03-10-2009, 10:39 AM
Hi keyboard 86
This is fascinating I am interested in the family because 'Lady' Emily Shephard supported our family for many years. In 1901 'Lady' Emily helped arrange for my grandmother's children to be admitted to Muller's Orphanage. My grandmother had just lost her husband and was pregnant with her sixth child. The Shephards were still around some twenty years later when my mother was born she was named after 'Lady' Emily Shepherd. I think my aunt Sarah Katherine Rosina Clements continued to work for them I wonder when they died? They seemed good people
Thanks for the help ELMA

Keyboard86
03-10-2009, 10:40 AM
Hi Keyboard 86
You sure work hard, thanks. I will send off for Fredericks marriages. Perhaps he has some
relatives by one of these previous marriages who can shed some light on this.
One more piece of the puzzle!
Cheers Elma

Hi Elma keep viewing this thread, I have more for you via a friend!
I am off to bed now, will be back on the case tonight!
Best Regards
Keyboard86|snore|

Elma
03-10-2009, 10:43 AM
Keyboard 86
Sorry to be stupid What is FMP?
Cheers Elma

Sandyhall
03-10-2009, 10:57 AM
Hi
FMP "Find my Past" site.

Found a couple of Christenings for you

Name: Annie Florence Starr
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 30 May 1904
Christening Date: 17 Jun 1904
Christening Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: Frederick James Starr
Mother's Name: Selina Frances

Name: William Leonard Starr
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 20 May 1906
Christening Date: 8 Jun 1906
Christening Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: Frederick James Starr
Mother's Name: Selina Frances

Name: Alexander Frederick Starr
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 3 Aug 1909
Christening Date: 3 Sep 1909
Christening Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: Frederick James Starr
Mother's Name: Selina Frances

Sandy

Keyboard86
03-10-2009, 11:01 AM
Keyboard 86
Sorry to be stupid What is FMP?
Cheers Elma

Elma you woke me up!!
Find my Past google search for it I use if I cannot find on Ancestry
Back to sleep!
Keyboard86
PS look in on thread tonight!|snore|

Sandyhall
03-10-2009, 11:01 AM
Hi Elma welcome to the forum, just to get the show on the road and bump this to top of the list so that more can help you, this is what I have found possibly for Frederick James Starr.

Frederick James Starr marriage Bristol Mar 1898 ref vol 6a page 82
Frederick James Starr marriage Bristol Dec 1903 ref vol 6a page 25.

Mar 1898 marriage to either a Elizabeth Morgan or Julia Brookes
Dec 1903 marriage to either a Lelena Frances Larcombe or Theresa Elizabeth Baker.

Best regards
Keyboard86|wave|

I think this should be Selina Frances named mother on the Christenings I gave you above.
Sandy

Sandyhall
03-10-2009, 11:13 AM
Frederick J Starr
Spouse Surname: Clements - Sarah K R Clements
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1935
Registration district: Bristol
Registration county (inferred): Gloucestershire, Somerset
Volume Number: 6a
Page Number: 403

You need to get this one to get more infomation such as the names of the witness to the marriage they could be his children.

Sandy
If you havent got it yet |biggrin|

Keyboard86
03-10-2009, 11:18 AM
I think this should be Selina Frances named mother on the Christenings I gave you above.
Sandy

Hi Sandy do us a favour and check on Freebdm, it is either my eyesight or them!
What is the Lanscombe bit after her name?
Cheers
Keyboard86|snore|

Keyboard86
03-10-2009, 11:25 AM
Sandy ignore last para re nee?!
Kexboard86

Sandyhall
03-10-2009, 11:33 AM
Sandy ignore last para re nee?!
Kexboard86

Hi
Will do (you must be in sleep mode by now) |wave|

1906 Kelly's Directory of Bristol

Starr. Frederick 5 Eugene Street, St James.

Sandy

Sandyhall
03-10-2009, 11:43 AM
Both FreeBMD & Ancestry have it as Lelena from a Trancription List not the orignal so it could be a spelling mistake.
Sandy

Elma
04-10-2009, 7:47 PM
Hi Sandy
Thanks for those Christenings and all the information. I am sending off for certificates. I wonder when Frederick James Starr or Catherine Rosina Starr died as I have a notion he married again after her. I have lots to think about. Appreciate all the help

Elma
04-10-2009, 7:53 PM
Keyboard 86
Sorry to wake you up the other night Thanks for all the help

Keyboard86
04-10-2009, 8:03 PM
Keyboard 86
Sorry to wake you up the other night Thanks for all the help

Hi Elma it was the morning! but it was no problem, back on case tonight as have a bit more time ie less work problems to sort out will post later with any updates.

Best Regards
Keyboard86|wave|

Keyboard86
04-10-2009, 11:59 PM
Hi Elma for mine and others assistance I am listing findings for the "Sisters" and there siblings Census by Census.

1841
Joseph Sheppard 30
Esther Wife 30
HJS? Daugh 8
Benjamin Nike son 5
Joseph son 3
Esther Daugh 2
Sidney son 10 months

Census ref HO 107/263/23

on same ref is a Mary Sheppard aged 25 and Elizabeth Sheperd aged 20.
look for louisa possibly see 1851.



1851
Joseph 43
Benjamin 14
Joseph 13
Louisa 11
Sidney 10
Mary J 9
Bertha 6
Emily 4
Edith 2
Marrianne Pim 48 Annuiant born Wandsworth Surrey

Census ref HO107/1868/467/37
look for Esther snr and Esther jnr

1861
Joseph 49
Marigus? Pim 56 born Wandsworth Surrey
Esther Q 22
Mary J 18
Bertha 16
Emily 14
Edith 12

Census Ref RG9/1401/130/25
Esther Senior died Clifton June 1860 ref 6a 90
look for Louisa/Sidney/Benjamin/Joseph

1871
Joseph 63
Louisa 30
Mary J 29
Bertha 26
Emily 24
Marianne Pim 66 born Wandsworth Surrey

Census Ref RG10/2071/75/35
Look for Esther Q/Sidney/Benjamin/Joseph/Edith

1881
Joseph 73
Emily 32
Marianne Pim 70 Widow
Census Ref RG11/2461/17/12
Look for Esther Q/Louisa/Mary J/Bertha/Edith, plus boys possibly from 1861?

1891
Joseph 83
Esther Q 52
Mary J 49
Bertha 46
Marianne Pim 88 Sister-in-Law
Census Ref RG12/1966/99/3
Death of Joseph Snr aged 84 Sept 1891 Barton Regis ref 6a 35
look for Edith/Louisa/plus boys from 1861 possibly

1901

Look for Bertha and boys possibly?

Hope this makes it easier for yourself Elma and others who are viewing in!

Best Regards
Keyboard86

Keyboard86
05-10-2009, 12:27 AM
Possible marriage of Bertha Mar 1891 Keynsham ref 5c 1003 to either a Aaron Legg or Samuel Crew.

When was Census taken?

Keyboard86

Keyboard86
05-10-2009, 12:43 AM
Possible marriage of Bertha Mar 1891 Keynsham ref 5c 1003 to either a Aaron Legg or Samuel Crew.

When was Census taken?

Keyboard86

Aha Bertha married in Axbridge June 1895 ref 5c 974 on same page is a Oliver Peters PIMM.

Now I have found what the set up is/was with the Pim family!/? Why is Marianne sister in law in 1891?


Best regards
Keyboard86|wave|

Elma
05-10-2009, 9:26 AM
Great Work
We have some lovely copies of letters written by the Sheppard sisters in 1901 and it becomes very obvious they are from a very priveledged background they talk about 'Ponyridd being a dreafull place and not suitable to bring children up in'.
They maintained their support to our family and I wonder if Sarah Katherine Rosina Clements was a benificary in their wills. She probably worked with them for years. These Shepphard ladies fought to get my grandmothers children in Mullers Orphange in 1901. Apparrently it was unusual in that the children were not orphans and my grandmother was granted compensation money after her husbands accidenal death. 'Lady' Emily Shepphard also took in one of my grandmothers children as she left the orphanage some 6 years later. I am glad we have found out who they are.

Elma
05-10-2009, 9:31 AM
Brilliant
Yes I have the marriage certificate recently arrived. The witnesses were Frank and Annie Garland maybe this is his daughter Annie picked up in the baptisms.
I'm loving this Thanks

Elma
05-10-2009, 9:36 AM
What do you have to do to get in Kelly's Directory?

Elma
05-10-2009, 9:39 AM
Wow
This one will take me some time to digest
Thanks a million

Elma
08-12-2009, 4:33 PM
Hi everyone
I just wanted to update my posts about Frederick James Starr. I am still working on the Shepherd family hoping eventually to find the deaths of Emily or her sisters to see if they did leave anything to my aunt Sarah Katherine Rosina Clements. They are such a fascinating family and so supportive to my grandmother. I am sure I will find out more there. They obviously were very affluent but good people that is nice to know.

About Frederick James Starr's first wives. I managed to contact a descendant of Lelena Larcombe (Yes it is LELENA) and she filled me in with so much information. Lelena was introduced to me on Keyboard's posting! I was particularly pleased to know that Frederick and Sarah found so much happiness together in their later life. Frederick was quite an eccentric and it touched me to have so much information. They also gave me some anecdotal information on Sarah which really made me smile and confirmed what my mother had said many many years ago. My mother would be so pleased to hear all worked out well. A Happy Ending
Thanks Everyone ELMA

RonOne
09-12-2009, 2:02 AM
Found these christenings on the IGI (All extracted)
Which appear to match the children from the 1881 census post #4 by Keyboard86.

Frederick James Star
Christening: 17 SEP 1871 - Bristol, Gloucester, England
Father: Frederick Star
Mother: Mary Ann
Batch number: C170971

Alice Hannah Star
Christening: 20 JUL 1873 - Bristol, Gloucester, England
Father: Frederick Star
Mother: Mary Ann
Batch number: C170971

Stephen James Starr
Christening: 22 AUG 1875 - Bristol, Gloucester, England
Father: Frederic Starr
Mother: Mary Ann
Batch number: C170971

Louisa Starr
Christening: 15 JUL 1884 - Bristol, Gloucester, England
Father: Frederick Starr
Mother: Mary Ann Starr
Batch number: V000349

Caroline Starr
Christening: 15 JUL 1884 - Bristol, Gloucester, England
Father: Frederick Starr
Mother: Mary Ann Starr
Batch number: V000349

RonOne
09-12-2009, 2:11 AM
Corresponding births on FreeBMD:

Births Sep 1871
STAR Frederick James - Bristol 6a 17

Births Jun 1873
STARR Alice Hannah - Bristol 6a 16

Births Sep 1875
STARR Stephen James - Bristol 6a 15

Births Mar 1878
STAR Louisa - Bristol 6a 49

Births Mar 1880
STARR Caroline - Bristol 6a 56

Elma
09-12-2009, 10:42 AM
Thanks Ronone
I have added all this to my tree. I dont know if it is me but there seems a lot of information about this family. I feel so lucky
Thanks once again
ELMA

Keyboard86
11-12-2009, 12:06 AM
Hi Elma, just a bit more info for you:-

1911 Census

Mary Jane Sheperd Head single aged 69 private means born Exeter
Emily PIM Sheperd Sister single aged 63 " " born Exeter
Edith Wollaston Visitor widow aged 62 " " born Exeter
Mary Flood Dom Servant single aged 40 Cook born Southampton
ROSINA Clements " single aged 40 Parlour Maid born Hampstead
Mabel Guy " single aged 19 House Maid born Bristol

Residing at 11 Royal Park Clifton Bristol

Census Ref RG14PN14834 RG78PN901 RD319 SD1 ED9 SN35

1911 Census

Frederick Starr Head aged 39 Refreshment House Manager
Lelina Wife aged 27 Assisting in business born Wiveliscombe??
Florence Starr Sister aged 42 " " " Bristol
Annie Daugh aged 6 "
William Son aged 4 "
Alexander Son aged 1 "

Residing at 66 Victoria Street Bristol/this appears to be there Refreshment House

Census Ref RG14PN14878 RG78PN902 RD319 SD2 ED17 SN84

All Census Refs courtesy and copyright of TNA

Keyboard86|wave|





























Census Ref RG14PN14878 RG78PN902 RD319 SD2 ED17 SN84

RonOne
11-12-2009, 12:54 AM
Possible marriage for Edith Shepherd:

Marriages Mar 1869
Shepherd Edith - Exeter 5b 133
Wollaston Thomas Vernon - Exeter 5b 133

Deaths Mar 1878
Wollaston Thomas Vernon - Age 55 - Newton A. 5b 95

Keyboard86
11-12-2009, 1:35 AM
Hi again Elma, a bit more info:-

Frederick Starr Snr married a Mary Ann Chinnock in Dec 1870 Bristol 6a 183

On the 1871 he is living at St John Bridge Street with Mary Ann.
Census Ref RG10/2522/79/8

On the 1911 of Frederick jnr, with Lelana, you will see he has his sister working with him, the only birth that makes any sense is one of a Florence Amelia CHINNOCK in Sept 1867 Bristol ref 6a 16

Searching for Florence in the 1871, she is to be found living with her grand-parents Rd? James Chinnock and Hannah in the same St John Bridge Street, so was Mary Ann a single parent prior to her marriage in 1870?
Census Ref RG10/2522/79/7.

1861
This is Frederick Snrs parents, and sibling:-

Stephen Starr aged 40 labourer born Nunney Somerset
Mary Ann Wife aged 36 born Chipping Sodbury
Frederick Son aged 15 born Nunney
Walter Son aged 6months born Bristol

Residing at 7, St Johns Bridge Bristol

Census Ref RG09/1715/91/8

1851
Stephen Starr aged 29 General labourer born Nunney

Residing at Frome Union Workhouse

Census Ref HO107/1932/613/3/851

1841
Benjamin Starr aged 60 occ Thatcher
Mary aged 50
Virtue Daugh aged 25
Stephen Son aged 20

All born Nunney

Census Ref HO107/942/18/20/3

All Census Refs courtesy and copyright of TNA

Keyboard86|wave|

Keyboard86
11-12-2009, 3:08 AM
Possible marriage for Edith Shepherd:

Marriages Mar 1869
Shepherd Edith - Exeter 5b 133
Wollaston Thomas Vernon - Exeter 5b 133

Deaths Mar 1878
Wollaston Thomas Vernon - Age 55 - Newton A. 5b 95

1871 Census

Thomas V Wollaston aged 48 M.A. Canterbury born Scotten Lincs
Edith aged 21 born Exeter
plus 2 servants

Residing at Barnpark Terrace East Teignmouth

Census Ref RG10/2071/74/33

1881
Edith Wollaston Widow/Annuitant with 2 Servants at above address still.
Census Ref RG11/2156/156/37

1891
Edith Wollaston aged 42
Emily Sheperd sister aged 43
plus 1 Servant at 1871 address still.

Census Ref RG12/1694/38/27


1881
Jane Clark Head Widow aged 82 Dividends born Wick Somerset
Louisa Shepherd Visitor aged 40 " born Exeter
Mary Jane Shepherd Visitor aged 37 " born Exeter
Plus 2 Servants

Residing at 12, Bennett Street Bath
Census Ref RG11/2441/97/19

Hope this fills in gaps for you!

Keyboard86|wave|
Census Ref RG10/2071/74/33

RonOne
11-12-2009, 11:31 PM
(IGI Extracted)

THOMAS VERNON WOLLASTON
Christening: 10 MAR 1822 - Scotter, Lincoln, England
Father: HENRY JOHN WOLLASTON
Mother: LOUISA

RonOne
11-12-2009, 11:50 PM
"Thomas Vernon Wollaston" - This link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Vernon_Wollaston) looks interesting. :)

Actually there are plenty of links for "Thomas Vernon Wollaston" - Just google his name.

Keyboard86
11-12-2009, 11:55 PM
"Thomas Vernon Wollaston" - This link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Vernon_Wollaston) looks interesting. :)

Actually there are plenty of links for "Thomas Vernon Wollaston" - Just google his name.

Well done Ronone, in my post 43 I showed he had received his MA at Canterbury re-read Census should be Cambridge, what a great link you found!

Keyboard|wave|

RonOne
12-12-2009, 12:40 AM
This link (http://web2.wku.edu/~smithch/chronob/WOLL1822.htm) gives a brief 'Life Chronology' for Thomas Vernon Wollaston (including birth and death dates and links to his published works online)

Keyboard86
12-12-2009, 5:08 AM
Hi Elma, I believe the eldest of the "Sisters" Esther was also calling herself Louisa, as on the Census returns where Esther appears Louisa disappears!
This works both ways, my reason for this is I have found a death of a Esther Louisa Shepherd in Dec qtr 1902 aged 63 Bristol 6a 43.

Also the death of there long term "Visitor" Marianne Pimm aged 94 in June 1897 Barton Regis 6a 44

Birth of Selina(Lelina) Larcombe June qtr 1882 Wellington Somerset 5c 320
Death Selina F Starr aged 45 March qtr 1928 Bristol 6a 267.

Will keep looking for this wonderful bunch for you!

Keyboard86

Keyboard86
12-12-2009, 5:29 AM
Hi Elma, with help from Ronone:-

Birth Julia Brookes June qtr 1875 Malmesbury 5a 47
Death Julia Starr aged 27 Mar qtr 1903 Malmesbury 5a 33

Keyboard86

JAP1
12-12-2009, 6:04 AM
Hi Keyboard86,

That 1871 census actually reads "M.A. Cantab." which is the way that degrees from The University of Cambridge were cited.
"Cantab" is an abbreviation of the Latin Cantabrigiensis - standing for of/from Cambridge (Cantabrigia being the Latinized form of Cambridge).
Similarly, an M.A. from The University of Oxford was cited as M.A. Oxon. - Oxon. being an abbreviation of Oxoniensis.

These days M.A.Camb. and M.A.Oxf. are common usages.

JAP

Keyboard86
12-12-2009, 7:52 AM
Thanks JAP, my mind was elsewhere on my original post, I did know the correct Uni, but blew it in the translation!
Regards
Keyboard|oopsredfa

Keyboard86
12-12-2009, 8:31 AM
Hi Sandy
Thanks for those Christenings and all the information. I am sending off for certificates. I wonder when Frederick James Starr or Catherine Rosina Starr died as I have a notion he married again after her. I have lots to think about. Appreciate all the help

Hi Elma, as Katherine/Catherine/Rosina/Sarah Clements liked to change her forename at each census, could this possibly be her death.
Sarah R K Starr Dec qtr 1938 Taunton 5c 311 aged 67, this ties in with a birth c 1871.
Keyboard86|wave|

Elma
12-12-2009, 9:12 AM
Keyboard
I can hardly keep up with all this wonderful information and I will make sure I study it fully. I am not the fastest spark even at the best of times!
That death certificate is my christmas present. I dont know why Sarah and the Shepherd flock meant so much I cant explain but from a very working class family, we were shown kindness and now I think their influence has really shaped us. Education was encouraged against all odds. My mother named after Emily Shepherd had certainally learnt the finer points of life and although she continued to struggle had such an interest in the meaning of things.
Thank you everyone. I am still digesting it all. BLISS
ELMA
PS Could someone tell me how long do these posts stay on?

Elma
12-12-2009, 9:19 AM
Ronone
This information about Thomas Vernon Wollaston is fascinating. As a family we have spent this year following Darwins trail, his anniversary. I know feel a closer link. I am an old romantic but it means alot.
Thanks
Elma

Keyboard86
13-12-2009, 9:47 AM
Hi Elma, you have found Sarah/Catherine in Workhouses based in Fulham and Royston, I have found her in 1881 (Royston) when does she appear in Fulham?
I cannot locate her on the 1891, was it then, and what happened to/who were her parents?
Keyboard86|wave|

Keyboard86
13-12-2009, 10:03 AM
Apologies to all who are viewing this thread, my last post refers to the initial thread post by Elma.
Kexboard86

JAP1
13-12-2009, 10:04 AM
...
PS Could someone tell me how long do these posts stay on?

Hi Elma, As far as I am aware there is no 'use by' date!

As far as I know, they'll be here as long as B-G continues - and very very long may it continue!!

JAP

Elma
13-12-2009, 10:27 AM
Hi Keyboard
Thanks for that information.
I have sent for Sarah's death certificate.
To recap I have no birth certificate or baptism for Sarah.
I found her parents in Hampstead on the 1871 census, presumably she was not yet born. Sarah is fairly consistent with putting her place of birth as Hampstead. I have spent many a long hour at the LMA but no luck with baptisms.
Then as you, I found her in the workhouse at Royston(where her father was from). Searching the Royston Workhouse records we pieced together they had been sent from Fulham workhouse. So I searched those records. It appears she entered there around Oct 1877 with her mother and younger brother and sister. Her father I think may have been sent to prison. Fulham Workhouse was really a dreadful place and Sarah's mother, gave birth shortly after entering. Her mother then had the courage to complain about mistreatment of her and the baby by the matron. It got her nowhere and the baby died. The family were shortly transfered to Royston.
I definately pick up Sarah in the late 1890's in Bristol where her father and the family had settled, he had re-married and possibly her mother had died.
I have a possible census of 1891 but it is in Yorkshire (maybe a long shot)
Ref RG12/3974/69/8.
We do know shortly after this she joined the Shepperd family.
Why no birth certificate I do not know, the other siblings were registered.
You have been very kind and you do not know how pleased I am to learn more about Sarah.
Thanks again ELMA

Elma
13-12-2009, 10:42 AM
Keyboard
To Recap Sarah's parents

Mother- Catherine Rosina Connell born 1848 Hollen Street, Midddlesex
Father- James Clements born 1851 in Heydon, Essex
Catherine and James married on 25th Dec 1870 at The Parish Church, New Kentish Town.

We know nothing of Catherine after she entered Royston Workhouse. On James second marriage in 1889 in Bristol, he describes himself widowed.

I also accepted this was family was just too difficult but it shows, never give up. Everyone has been so kind
ELMA

Keyboard86
13-12-2009, 11:45 AM
Hi again Elma, I am just off to bed!
One thing both Ronone and I noticed re the 1881 Census, was just how many "Clement's" other than Catherine and siblings were also there?
Coincidence? Or another part of the story.
Keyboard86|snore|

Keyboard86
13-12-2009, 9:36 PM
HI Elma, James Clements Snr did not end up in prison, on the 1881 Census, he is in another Workhouse, The Hackney Union Sidney Road Homerton, Hackney. RG11/310/84/19

He is saying he is single and his occupation is Bricklayer born Halstead Essex.

He then moves to Bristol by the 1891 Census RG12/1986/48/27 marries Clara Jane Catlin in Sept 1889 Barton Regis 6a 180, his son James by Catherine is with him, I then follow him onward until the 1911 Census.

In 1893 James Jnr marries a Mary Ann Fitz in March qtr Barton Regis 6a 140, I have him and his family until the 1911 where they all disappear, reason they emigrated to the USA:-

James Clements aged 30 occ Engine Fitter
Mary Ann Wife aged 31
Thomas J Son aged 11
Rosina M Daugh aged 7
Arthur R Son aged 4
Violet M K Daugh aged 2

Departure date 8th June 1907
Port of departure Liverpool
Destination New York USA
Ship ETRURIA

Nice to see they called there 1st born girl Rosina isn't it!

1901 Census Ref for James Jnr RG13/2383/130/18

Have enjoyed meeting your relations, if only to research the good and the bad times that seem to occur in all families.

Best Regards
Keyboard|wave|

Keyboard86
13-12-2009, 11:06 PM
Hi Elma, almost forgot about Mary (Mary Ann) Clements in the 1891 Census RG12/1965/42/34 she is shown in a household as a General Servant born Tottenhan Court Road London.

In Sept qtr 1891 Barton Regis 6a 148 she marries a William Guy, by the 1901 Census ref RG13/2375/97/33 she is shown as a Widow with 3 sons and 2 daughters.
One of the daughters is called Mabel, and on my post 40 you can see her working with Sarah at the Shepperd family house, she therefore is Sarahs' "Sister-in-law!

In Dec 1906 she re-marries a Walter Benjamin Godfrey and moves by the 1911 Census to Glamorganshire taking with her 2 of the sons from her marriage to William Guy, and children born in Bristol from her re-marriage.

Census Ref RG14/32379 RG78PN185313 RD 589 SD4 ED51 SN150

Best Regards
Keyboard|wave|

Keyboard86
13-12-2009, 11:18 PM
Sorry Elma missed out 2nd marriage ref to Walter Godfrey it is Dec 1906 Bristol 6a 145

Keyboard

Elma
14-12-2009, 8:46 AM
Wow Keyboard
You are working hard!
The 1881 census for James Clements I dont think is the right one. That James was born in Halstead some 40 miles from Heydon and is recorded as unmarried. I think he can be traced in census's before and after and it does not tie in.
I think my James was arrested for stealing before Catherine and the children went in the Workhouse at Fulham. Royston Workhouse make some references to his arrest.

The others are all spot on. Mary Ann was Sarah Katherine Rosina's sister the one the Sheppard family got so involved with. Mary Ann was my grandmother.

Back to your and Ronones comment about the number of Clements in the Roston Workhouse 1881 I think they all come from Hants but James was one of 13 children, all trying to make a way so they may tie up.
Thanks again
ELMA

Keyboard86
14-12-2009, 9:17 AM
Wow Keyboard
You are working hard!
The 1881 census for James Clements I dont think is the right one. That James was born in Halstead some 40 miles from Heydon and is recorded as unmarried. I think he can be traced in census's before and after and it does not tie in.
I think my James was arrested for stealing before Catherine and the children went in the Workhouse at Fulham. Royston Workhouse make some references to his arrest.

The others are all spot on. Mary Ann was Sarah Katherine Rosina's sister the one the Sheppard family got so involved with. Mary Ann was my grandmother.

Back to your and Ronones comment about the number of Clements in the Roston Workhouse 1881 I think they all come from Hants but James was one of 13 children, all trying to make a way so they may tie up.
Thanks again
ELMA

Morning Elma, is it possible for you to give the birth details of Mary(Ann) and James, showing parents/dates etc as I cannot comprehend how Sarah/Rosina/Catherine was apparently not registered!
Where Mary Ann and James christened/baptised?
Just need that extra clue possibly to find her registration.
Best Regards
Keyboard|wave|

Elma
14-12-2009, 10:23 AM
Keyboard

You are so helpful. I do feel a bit greedy though, as I have already been given so much help.

Mary Ann Jane Clements born 10 Hertford Place, St Pancras, which is just off Tottenham Court Road on 27th May 1873

James George Francis Clements born 11 Emma Place, Kensington on 30th June 1875

William Robert Arthur Clements born Fulham Workhouse on 8th Nov 1877
died Fulham workhouse 26th Jan 1878

I have found those three births and deaths, but only little William's baptism, which was a private baptism done the day before he died.

Catherine and James liked to give their children three names it seems.
I have trod the Streets of Hampstead and checked the LMA for a clue to Sarahs birth but no luck.
Thanks so much ELMA
PS
All three childrens birth certs record father James Clements and mother C R Clements(Catherine Rosina) previously Connell

Keyboard86
15-12-2009, 4:15 AM
Possible marriage for Edith Shepherd:

Marriages Mar 1869
Shepherd Edith - Exeter 5b 133
Wollaston Thomas Vernon - Exeter 5b 133

Deaths Mar 1878
Wollaston Thomas Vernon - Age 55 - Newton A. 5b 95

Hi Elma, have along with Ronone spent an interesting night, trying to find out all the BMD's of the Shepperd family, I have left it with Ronone to add our findings, and they will be posted on this thread later tonight.

One for you though is the Death of Edith Wollaston nee Shepperd in Dec qtr 1911 Newton Abbot 5b 116 aged 62.

See you soon as I am off for 5 days.

Keyboard|wave|

RonOne
15-12-2009, 9:38 PM
Here's what we have so far:

(IGI Extracted)
BENJAMIN WERE SHEPHERD
Christening: 13 JUN 1836 - Saint Leonard, Exeter, Devon, England
Father: JOSEPH SHEPHERD
Mother: ESTHER

Births Mar 1838
SHEPHERD Joseph Augustus - St Thomas 10 228
(Note: The St Thomas, registration district covers Heavitree and St. Leonard)

(2 possible births for Sidney - probably the first one; the same surname spelling as the others)
Births Sep 1840
Shepherd Sidney - St Thomas 10 200
Sheppard Sidney - St Thomas 10 195

Births Mar 1842
Shepherd Mary Jane - Exeter 10 114

Births Mar 1845
SHEPHERD Bertha - Exeter 10 118

Unable to find HJS (circa 1833) - Esther/Louisa (circa 1839) - Emily (circa 1847) - Edith (circa 1849)

RonOne
15-12-2009, 9:51 PM
Possible marriage for Joseph and Esther Shepherd:

(IGI Extracted)
JOSEPH SHEPHERD
Spouse: ESTHER WERE
Marriage: 16 JUL 1835 - Saint James, Poole, Dorset, England

RonOne
15-12-2009, 9:57 PM
Assuming the above marriage is correct (Benjamin WERE Shepherd’s middle name) then Marrianne Pim (nee Were) could be Esther Were’s sister:

Marriages Mar 1841
Pim Joseph - Tiverton&c 10 409
WERE Marianne - Tiverton &c 10 409

This looks like it could be an amendment for this marriage registration:
Marriages Mar 1841
Pim Joseph - Exeter 10 178A
WERE Marianne - Exeter 10 178A

Elma
16-12-2009, 10:19 AM
Ronone

The information is fascinating and I will take it all in slowly.
What a name 'Were'!
We were lucky the family provided so generously for my family, how differerent life might have been.
I do appreciate your efforts.
ELMA

Keyboard86
19-12-2009, 3:49 AM
Hi Elma, have along with Ronone spent an interesting night, trying to find out all the BMD's of the Shepperd family, I have left it with Ronone to add our findings, and they will be posted on this thread later tonight.

One for you though is the Death of Edith Wollaston nee Shepperd in Dec qtr 1911 Newton Abbot 5b 116 aged 62.

See you soon as I am off for 5 days.

Keyboard|wave|

Hi Elma, due to combinations of possibles Ronone and I, will have to leave yourself or others, the search for the following births/deaths.
HJS? Shepherd b c 1833
Esther/Louisa Shepherd b c 1839
Emily Shepherd b c 1847
Edith Shepherd b c 1849
Father Joseph
Mother Esther
Also death/possible remarriage of Frederick James Starr.
Keyboard86|wave|

Keyboard86
23-12-2009, 4:32 AM
Hi Elma, as Katherine/Catherine/Rosina/Sarah Clements liked to change her forename at each census, could this possibly be her death.
Sarah R K Starr Dec qtr 1938 Taunton 5c 311 aged 67, this ties in with a birth c 1871.
Keyboard86|wave|

Hi Elma, I think this is possibly the death of Frederick James Starr:-

June qtr 1939 Bristol 6a 112 aged 66, I also searched for a re-marriage that you thought possible, there is a marriage of a Frederick J Starr to a Winifred V Pymm Bristol June qtr 1938 6a 177, but this lady would have been only 19 at the time of the marriage, possible but unlikely don't you think!

In your PM you mentioned that you had received the death certificate of Sarah, was it indeed the right one?

Keyboard86|wave|

Elma
23-12-2009, 8:25 AM
Thanks Keyboard
Yes my death certificate is the right one, Sarah died 23rd Dec 1938 of a Cerebral Haemorrhage. The informant was G H Bond, brother in law. If Frederick did die a few months later perhaps he was too unwell to register the death! They only had three or four years together but were supposed to be very happy!
Thanks again
ELMA

Elma
16-12-2010, 9:59 AM
Hi Everyone
Just wanted to update you all and especially Keyboard.
I have been very slow here my apologies but eventually I located the will of Emily Pim Shepherd. I had always thought that our family especially my aunt Sarah Katherine Rosina Clements had benefited from this. I was not disappointed Emily did leave Aunt Sarah both a lump sum and trust fund for life. She was also left furnitures and a painting of Teighmouth Estuary. Aunt Sarah was referred to as my faithful friend and she did better than the many relatives.
It was quite warming. I think the Shepherd family were a good family and Aunt Sarah was well thought of. After her awful start in various workhouses and being sent out to service at 10years, life could have been worse.
Thanks Everyone
ELMA