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brentor boy
11-09-2009, 9:43 AM
In 1881 Robert and Mary (Llewellyn) Davies are shown with their four children living in Bute Street, Ystradyfodwg. Included in the household are Benjamin D Jones (1877) - grandson , Herbert Watts Davies (1865) - son, born Somerset, and Jane Rees (1815), - mother in law, born Brecknock.

I believe that Benjamin D Jones is Benjamin Jones Davies born Sep Q 1876 (Pontypridd) and could well be the illegitimate son of eldest daughter Elizabeth.

I have found a Jane Rees, born 1815 at Brecknock in earlier census records, but cannot determine how she might be related to this family. Any suggestions?

The real mystery is Herbert Watts Davies. I cannot find any other record of him anywhere. The closest I can find is a Herbert Watts Smith born Bath 1869. Whose son is he anyway? I would really appreciate help on this one!

carolchipp
11-09-2009, 11:16 AM
I have found a Jane Rees, born 1815 at Brecknock in earlier census records, but cannot determine how she might be related to this family. Any suggestions?

The real mystery is Herbert Watts Davies. I cannot find any other record of him anywhere. The closest I can find is a Herbert Watts Smith born Bath 1869. Whose son is he anyway? I would really appreciate help on this one!

Hi brentnor boy,
Jane is listed as mother-in-law. If this doesn't seem right, are you sure you have the correct family?
There is a Herbert W Davies b.1864 living in Carmarthenshire in 1871. Have you seen the original of the '81. Just wondering if he could actually be a nephew or something. His father is listed as John W Davies.

pottoka
11-09-2009, 8:21 PM
The family living at 169 Bute Street, Ystradyfodwg in 1881 are:

Richard Davies - Head - Mar - 46 - Coal Miner - Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Mary Davies - Wife - Mar - 45 - Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales
Sarah Ann Davies - Daur - Unm - 16 - House washing - Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales
Rees Davies - Son - 13 - Coal Miner - Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales
Jane Davies - Daur - 9 - Scholar - Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan, Wales
Benjamin D. Jones - Grandson - 4 - Scholar - Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan, Wales
Herbert Watts Davies - Son - 16 - Coal Miner - Somerset
Jane Rees - Mother Law - Wid - 66 - Breconshire

Census ref: Class: RG11; Piece: 5301; Folio: 34; Page: 18;

The order in which the members of the family have been entered suggests that Herbert is not Richard and Mary's son although it is clearly written "son". Besides, could they really have had a daughter, Sarah Ann, in Merthyr Tydfil and a son, Herbert Watts, in Somerset in the same year so that they're the same age on the Census?

I presume you have Mary's maiden name from the birth certificate of one of the children, and the marriage is the one in 1856, Merthyr Tydfil R.D. If so, there is a John Davies who married Elizabeth Thomas on the same page - is it too far-fetched to imagine that John might be Richard's brother, and so Herbert would be John's son?

How common is spelling the first name Rees like that? It jumped out at me as a possible link between Jane Rees and the family, but I may be clutching at straws!

pottoka
11-09-2009, 8:34 PM
The family are living in Ystradyfodwg on the 1871 Census, too, on River Row.

Richd Davies - Head - Mar - 37 - Collier - Swansea, Glamorgan
Mary Davies - Wife - Mar - 36 - Dowlais, Glamorgan
Elizabeth Davies - Daur - 12 - Scholar - Dowlais, Glamorgan
Sarah Ann Davies - Daur - 6 - Scholar - Aberdare, Glamorgan
Rees Davies - Son - 3 - Aberdare, Glamorgan

I wondered about the big gap between Elizabeth and Sarah Ann. Could Mary have died and Richard remarried, with another Mary? I looked at the death and marriage indexes but it didn't seem to fit, but it could be a possiblity which would bring Jane Rees into the family.

Census reference: Class: RG10; Piece: 5384; Folio: 10; Page: 13;

pottoka
11-09-2009, 8:44 PM
In 1861, Richard and Mary are living in Dowlais in Merthyr Tydfil:

Richd Davies - Head - Mar - 26 - Coal Miner -Swansea, Glamorgan
Mary Davies - Wife - Mar - 25 - Merthyr-Tydfil, Glamorgan
Elizabeth Davies - Daur - 2 - Merthyr-Tydfil, Glamorgan
Enock (no surname) - Boarder - Unm - 17 - Coal Miner - Swansea, Glamorgan

pottoka
12-09-2009, 12:16 AM
I forgot the Census reference for the 1861 Census for Richard and Mary Davies: Class: RG9; Piece: 4051; Folio: 99; Page: 6

I've found the Herbert W Davies born in Carmarthenshire in 1871, aged 7, living with his parents, John W. Davies and Mary Davies, and a number of siblings in Carmarthen St Peter.
Census reference: Class: RG10; Piece: 5498; Folio: 56; Page: 12

He is on the 1881 Census, aged 17, with his father John W. Davies, presumably a stepmother, Ann Davies and siblings, still in Carmarthen St Peter, so he can't be the same person as Herbert Watts Davies who is living with Richard and Mary in Ystradyfodwg. In 1881 he is a Flannel Weaver; quite a far cry from a Coal Miner.
Census reference: Class: RG11; Piece: 5398; Folio: 58; Page: 6

pottoka
12-09-2009, 12:50 AM
In 1871, Jane Rees, aged 56, from Breconshire, was living in Aberdare, Glamorgan, with a son called Henry, aged 20. She was a widow without occupation, and he was a collier.
Census reference: Class: RG10; Piece: 5407; Folio: 81; Page: 1

In 1861, Jane was also living in Aberdare:

John Rees - Head - Mar - 53 - Mason - Swansea
Jane Rees - Wife - Mar - 46 - Breconshire
George Rees - Son - 10 - Scholar - Aberdare, Glamorgan
Henry Rees - Son - 13 (?) - Masons Helper - Aberdare, Glamorgan

Census reference: Class: RG9; Piece: 4066; Folio: 20; Page: 36

pottoka
12-09-2009, 1:09 AM
A bit of disappoinment there as I thought I'd found Jane in 1851 with a son called William Jones, so I thought that Benjamin Jones was perhaps not illegitimate, and Jane Rees was connected to the family through him. Unfortunately, I'd got the wrong family, and they are still all called Rees, and still in Aberdare:

John Rees - Head - Mar - 43 - Mason - Aberdare, Glamorgan
Jan Rees - Wife - Mar - 36 - Aberdare, Glamorgan
John Rees - Son - 15 - Labourer - Aberdare, Glamorgan
George Rees - Son - 3 - Aberdare, Glamorgan
Henry Rees - Son - 1 - Aberdare, Glamorgan

So, George and Henry got their ages mixed up on the 1861 Census, apparently.

Census reference: Class: HO107; Piece: 2460; Folio: 361; Page: 5;

brentor boy
12-09-2009, 10:32 AM
Thanks Carolchipp and Pottoka.

I am fairly confident I have managed to sort out this family, but until I can tie in these loose ends I shall not be completely satisfied.

Richard Davies married Mary Llewelyn of Merthyr Tydfil/Penywaun Fawr in 1856. These are the parents of Sarah Anne. The names of the two younger children do suggest a possible re-marriage to the daughter of Jane Rees, but as Pottoka has confirmed, I also could find no evidence of her having a daughter. Perhaps I need to obtain a copy birth cert for young Jane to confirm this conclusion, but I also have found no BMD entry that suggests a relevant Davies/Rees marriage.

It would appear that Richard was the son of Benjamin and Joan/na (Morgan) living Manmoel, Bedwellty (1841) and Carmarthen Road, Swansea(1851). He had a brother Enoch(b 1844) who could be the un-named visitor in 1861.

Mary was the daughter of Jenkin and Jennet/Janet (David/Davis) living in Penwain Fawr in 1841.

None of this explains the connection to Jane Rees or identifies Herbert Watts Davies. The search goes on.