PDA

View Full Version : Old Church customs



DaveinInskip
28-07-2009, 7:13 PM
Can anyone elaborate on the age old custom of burying an illegitimate child outside the walls of the Church with a stake through the heart.

I have read somewhere of this occuring,very nice people our ancestors.

Dave in Inskip :eek:

Peter Goodey
28-07-2009, 7:17 PM
Isn't that vampires?

MarkJ
28-07-2009, 7:21 PM
I haven't heard that myself - it seems a bit odd to me...

They would be buried in unconsecrated ground if not baptised as a rule, but if batised, illegitimate children were buried in the consecrated ground as far as I am aware.
The stake sounds a bit Bram Stoker-ish to me too ;)

Mark

MythicalMarian
28-07-2009, 7:24 PM
No, I have NEVER heard of that in this country - not even the most puritanical of parishes during the so-called Commonwealth. I'm with Peter - isn't this East European and vampirish? Whatever the transgressions of the mother in the past, I really doubt that any minister would blame the child.

Where did you hear this, Dave?

v.wells
28-07-2009, 7:28 PM
Perhaps it was the era of witches and they did that to an ilegit child of a alleged witch? How horrible in any event!

aland
28-07-2009, 7:47 PM
Are you sure you don't know Mark,

I think Peter's on the right lines !




but if batised, |biggrin||biggrin||biggrin|

Mark


No modding your own typo's ;)

DaveinInskip
28-07-2009, 7:50 PM
Vxr Rici Baldwyne Ludimagri 7 Feb 1609

Infans illegit' Janae Townley et Hen: Walton vt asseritr 7 Feb 1609


Above is the entry from a parish register,don't know where,I am asking the question to help a scribe.

I understand that vt means "in order that" or "in order to".

asseritr means a stake or pole.There is also a mention of a teacher in there somewhere.

I have seen discussion of this in a forum,but a while ago,and can't think where.

Someone mentioned witches,in the next village to me Woodplumpton,was buried a witch,she got up twice and left the grave,so the third time they buried her they rolled an enormous boulder on top of the grave,still there to this day.

hope this helps sort out this odd one.

Dave in Inskip

Wirral
28-07-2009, 8:18 PM
Can anyone elaborate on the age old custom of burying an illegitimate child outside the walls of the Church with a stake through the heart.

I have read somewhere of this occuring,very nice people our ancestors.

Dave in Inskip :eek:
Rather than an "age old custom", this sounds to me like an "age-old dodgy translation".

arthurk
28-07-2009, 8:23 PM
Vxr Rici Baldwyne Ludimagri 7 Feb 1609

Infans illegit' Janae Townley et Hen: Walton vt asseritr 7 Feb 1609


Above is the entry from a parish register,don't know where,I am asking the question to help a scribe.

I understand that vt means "in order that" or "in order to".

asseritr means a stake or pole.There is also a mention of a teacher in there somewhere.

Further to Wirral's comment, I'd suggest it's all a bit more prosaic, but it's not helped by having a few words abbreviated.

The first entry is for the wife ("Vxr") of Richard Baldwyne, Schoolmaster - not particularly uncommon for married women's forenames to be omitted.

The second entry is completely separate, apart from being on the same day: "an illegitimate baby (could be male or female) of Jane Townley and Henry Walton - as alleged".

"Asser" is a Latin word for stake or pole, but none of my dictionaries mentions a connected verb "to stake". "Vt" (or "ut") can mean "in order to", but it can also mean "as", so I think this will be "ut asseritur" - as alleged/claimed/asserted - which would be a fairly normal thing to put for an illegitimate child whose father was known or suspected.

Sorry to burst any bubbles!

Arthur

DaveinInskip
28-07-2009, 9:27 PM
many thanks Arthurk for your translation,sounds good to me,with your permission I will forward your reply to my collegue.

Thanks for all the replies,shall we consider this closed now,but if I find my previous discussions on this I shall return,as MacArthur said.
bye for now,
Dave in Inskip

arthurk
29-07-2009, 5:23 PM
I've only just managed to get back to reply to this, but feel free to pass on what I wrote.

Arthur